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Ah, so this very interesting, and long (!) thread is making me smile for so many reasons. I see intelligent people from elsewhere talking about the city I love, and I just wish you all could be here to see if for yourselves. I make no claims about Pittsburgh being a utopia, but it has so many lovely facets to it that for those willing to work with it and see the good in it, Pittsburgh can be just right.
[quote=Tiger Beer;11801757]I am thinking about trying to teach in a community college though...at least those people want to be there./quote]
Well -- keep in mind they may want to be there, but very few have what it takes to stay in and go on to get their degree. Around 1/4 of community college students transfer to 4 year colleges to finish out their degree. 31% of CC students get a AA degree.
Over 60 percent of 4 year college students finish with degrees.
One of the residents of the place I clean is a community college teacher. She's been doing it for years and it's part time. Not by choice. At least back when I was in Butler County Community College, we had profs who were of the publish or perish variety -- where they were there full time and still actively pursuing their own interests.
I'm pretty sure I make more money as a janitor/owner than she does as a college teacher....
I am actively plotting a "return" to Pittsburgh from Atlanta (I went to school there -- I am also "highly educated" ). When I tell Atlanta friends I'm moving back, they are incredulous--why would anyone leave Atlanta to go to Pittsburgh? For me it's precisely the opposite--why would anyone stay in Atlanta when Pittsburgh is an option (my first faculty job was in Atlanta which is why we moved down and I've missed the Burgh every day since)?
I tell people where else can you live in a really nice condo for 200-300K in a neighborhood where you can walk out the door and in five minutes be in great museums, wonderful park, botanical garden, see foreign film, use top-notch university libraries, attend public lectures and cutting-edge presentations at schools the calibre of CMU/Pitt? Yuppie-heaven shopping is just a 30 minute stroll through a lovely neighborhood of upscale vintage homes, and the cultural, cafe and shopping stylings of Downtown, Squirrel Hill, Carson Street, the Strip and E. Liberty are a 10-15 minute drive. Bike paths, kayaking and the ball parks are equally accessible.
Of course the neighborhood I'm talking about for myself is North Oakland and it is a little pricey if you add in the HOA fees of the places I'm considering, but for a bit more inconvenience (10-15 minute drive) you can find a place with real charm in Greenfield, Bloomfield or Highland Park for 125-200K. Where else in the world could you find that? Does Boston have more/better universities? yep. Does NYC have better museums, untouchable dining and a unparallelled diversity? sure. Do LA, Chicago, SF, Miami and Seattle have elements that Pittsburgh lacks? mais oui (I told you I was educated). But where can you find a place with the lifestyle I am describing for less than $700-1m? In most places like Atlanta, you couldn't get access to the charm/culture/beauty of Pittsburgh at any price.
To be fair, I do think Pittsburgh is also more insular and less diverse/cosmopolitan than may cities, it is not a great dining city (just okay), and there is a fair amout of run-down crap interspersed among the architectural gems not to mention really high taxes (compared to other places I've lived), but that's the price you pay for living in an unpretentious place that isn't aiming for a Disneyland vibe (yeah, Seattle, Dallas, Miami, Portland, I'm talkin' to you ). The weather has its upsides, but definitely down sides. Still, dollar for dollar, I don't think you can do better than Pittsburgh. I may have to maintain a home elsewhere for business reasons, but when I get my place in the next couple months, you can be sure that Pittsburgh will be my "vacation home."
I am thinking about trying to teach in a community college though...at least those people want to be there.
Well -- keep in mind they may want to be there, but very few have what it takes to stay in and go on to get their degree. Around 1/4 of community college students transfer to 4 year colleges to finish out their degree. 31% of CC students get a AA degree.
Over 60 percent of 4 year college students finish with degrees.
One of the residents of the place I clean is a community college teacher. She's been doing it for years and it's part time. Not by choice. At least back when I was in Butler County Community College, we had profs who were of the publish or perish variety -- where they were there full time and still actively pursuing their own interests.
I'm pretty sure I make more money as a janitor/owner than she does as a college teacher....
which is sad, franklly...
Yep. So true.
Sadly, most everyone I know who has attempted the transition from college teaching in Asia to America, ends up back in Asia.
Yeah, sounds like mostly adjunct parttime work, low wages, and a lot of running around with pretty much no benefits whatsoever...from all I've heard.
Yet another reason to like Pittsburgh, at least I can pick up parttime hours while trying to re-educate myself into something else, or try a business idea or who knows what...but financially it gives you options there.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 11-28-2009 at 02:40 AM..
Yes, I did say that. I was bummed out about the weather in Boston.. That could have been an extension of struggling to make ends meet. Thats stats were interesting to me because Boston gets a lot more sunny days, but about 10 inches MORE in rain. Which made me wonder how many of these cloudy days are dry..
I read a stat once, which I could probably never find a cite for in a million years, that said there is a 50% probability of precip every day in Pittsburgh. In other words, there are about 180 days of precipitation per year. Of course, they're not evenly spaced out like that. It's more like several days of solid rain, then a few non-rain days, etc. Summer is the least rainy from the perspecitive of number of days of rain, sometimes a couple weeks will go by with no rain in mid-summer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
I am thinking about trying to teach in a community college though...at least those people want to be there.
Well -- keep in mind they may want to be there, but very few have what it takes to stay in and go on to get their degree. Around 1/4 of community college students transfer to 4 year colleges to finish out their degree. 31% of CC students get a AA degree.
Over 60 percent of 4 year college students finish with degrees.
I would add, not all CC students are there b/c they want to be there. Many are there b/c they can't think of anything else to do with their lives, or they didn't get in to the big "U" they applied to, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer
Yep. So true.
Sadly, most everyone I know who has attempted the transition from college teaching in Asia to America, ends up back in Asia.
Yeah, sounds like mostly adjunct parttime work, low wages, and a lot of running around with pretty much no benefits whatsoever...from all I've heard.
Yet another reason to like Pittsburgh, at least I can pick up parttime hours while trying to re-educate myself into something else, or try a business idea or who knows what...but financially it gives you options there.
I wouldn't be so sure of that. My dad did teach some at the local CC and also Penn State campus after he retired, but there wasn't always work. This was back in the 80s. I'm not sure what financial opportunities there are in Pgh for starting a business that aren't available elsewhere. Yes, housing is less expensive than say, since we're talking about it, Denver, but it seems to me that rentals are about the same in the two cities, and there is less difference than you might be expecting between comparable homes, e.g. a house in Shadyside/Sq. Hill and a house in Wash Park.
I hear ya. These electricians are complaining about $30/hr, but many folks don't make that close to that with more education or experience. This is not dissing on tradesmen, just pointing out that they are far from the most underpaid. I am always amazed how little teachers make, for instance, and now everyone seems to like to micromanage them. Like we are all experts on education and talk about good and bad schools as if we could do it better. Many times they start in the high $20s or low $30s, and are expected to pick up an MA along the way at their own expense. And, I might be insane, but I think their jobs are important, but terribly undervalued.
It's a demand thing. There's a shortage of skilled trademan compared to teachers. Everyone wants to be a teacher.
Pittsburgh is different compared to many areas of the country when it comes to teacher pay though.
Teachers make near 100k within 10 years at many of the area public school districts.
That's one reason it's hard to find a teaching job in the area...
Are you an American? I'm just asking , cause although 60K is a decent buc, it really doesn't support any kind of great lifestyle in 2009'. If you're single, it's not bad at all, but married with a couple of young kids and the wife is a stay at home mother?
True. True. Many middle class families in the 60k income range struggle to make ends meet even living modestly.
No matter what city you choose.. Make sure you don't set the expectations to high. Phoenix never stood a chance because my expectations were astronomical.
I read about Phoenix for years before I made the move. I visited it twice. Don't ever stay at a luxury resort when your visiting a city your thinking about moving to. My 2 trips out to Phoenix were 2 of the best weeks of my life. I thought Phoenix was the best thing since sliced bread. Now I can't wait to leave this hell hole!
Japan has a crazy cost of living. Getting away from that alone might be enough to make anyone happy. Just having more space might be thrill enough!
I'm just trying to give you a dose of reality is all. Stats never really give you the whole truth. I believe you said you where educated (highly), right? I can almost bet with all certainly that you'll have trouble adjusting to a lot of Pittsburgh's city neighborhoods or the boros.
I'm not saying you're a snob or anything. But your interest are going to differ from your avg Pittsburgh'ers. I know I'm painting you with a broad brush here. But come on, birds of a feather flock together mostly.
Don't look at the so-called cheap realestate in Pittsburgh, and think and compare the same house to an area somewhere else, where a completely different class of person might live.
After you visit Pittsburgh, you'll understand how Pittsburgh and Denver are really night-an-day. The people are a lot grittier in Pittsburgh than they are out west for the most part. Not in insult to Pittsburgh, just an honest observation from all my travels.
Dose of reality appreciated, but you have me wrong. I come from a family of mechanics and junkyard owners, and dirt track car and bike racers, and bible thumping zealots, etc., so I have no problem with working folk. Even those who differ quite a bit from me. I have never been rich, nor my parents, and my education was public schools, junior college, and regional universities. The thing about many western cities and towns is that they can be actually quite pretentious, materialistic, and spectacularly overpriced. $500-800k homes with in towns with $40k wages and high unemployment? Give me a break! As you point out a few threads up, I came to that party too late. And I am not kid starting out. I am mid-forties, and still trying to get on base. That is why affordability and value are so important to me.
I don't doubt you know a lot about your city, but I suspect there are more folks than simple blue collar types. And even those folks have plenty to share. Just on this board, I have had discussions with and learned from some pretty darn articulate and knowledgeable people. I prefer the culture of an Irish pub. There money and position don't matter; it is all about the craic (good jokes, discussion, warmth). Some of the folks are amazingly knowledgeable about the world, but anyone who starts posing is cut down very quick. I sense that vibe from the Burghers, that is, a love of knowledge, but a disdain for posing (Shadyside excluded), but I could be wrong. As for grittiness, I appreciate your perspective, and I suppose I will not know what I think until I check it out. Might love it or hate it, don't know. I know I don't like what I hear about trashiness and litter.
I promise this. If I do get to Pittsburgh, I will post back with my candid impressions-good,bad, and neutral. Always funny to see how reality compares with mental images we develop from afar.
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). When I tell Atlanta friends I'm moving back, they are incredulous--why would anyone leave Atlanta to go to Pittsburgh? For me it's precisely the opposite--why would anyone stay in Atlanta when Pittsburgh is an option (my first faculty job was in Atlanta which is why we moved down and I've missed the Burgh every day since)? 
). The weather has its upsides, but definitely down sides. Still, dollar for dollar, I don't think you can do better than Pittsburgh. I may have to maintain a home elsewhere for business reasons, but when I get my place in the next couple months, you can be sure that Pittsburgh will be my "vacation home." 
As you point out a few threads up, I came to that party too late. And I am not kid starting out. I am mid-forties, and still trying to get on base. That is why affordability and value are so important to me.
