Still torn between Pittsburgh and Denver (McKeesport: countertops, big home, closing)

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Katiana

If high school is an experiment, it's one that has been going on for a long time. I don't really think the concept is experimental any more. Compulsory education laws were passed in the 1930s. Many people of my parents' generation (born ~ 1920, give or take a few years), were the first ones in their families to graduate from HS. It is precisely because "the ability to gauge risks and the consequences of their actions and to differentiate the superficial from the important" is not well developed that they belong in school and not out in the workforce trying to support themselves, and being responsible for others, e.g. in health care, to name just one example. If you ever spent much time in a US high school, you would see that teens are not setting the behavior standards, etc.

A long-term experiment is still an experiment, and I do not agree that kids do not set the mores of a high school. In the old days, kids did not expect a car at 16, and their own room, they expect a lot now and early. And yes, I went to an American high school myself, I speak from experience. I agree that they should not be treated as adults, just pondering whether youth culture has been given a bit too much free rein. I am no Puritan, nor antiyouth, nor antiprogress, just pondering educational alternatives and whether the current one is best.

I'll blame Tiger Beer, because of his emphatic stand that he will never educate American youths, but gladly does so in Japan. Why are our kids so much more challenging? I can only share that by serving as a substitute teacher two years from kindergarten to 12th grade physics, I saw a bunch of patterns (at least in how they treat subs). Girls, usually easier than boys, rich kids,schools easier than poorer schools, anglo boys much more contrary and downright mean than hispanic boys, etc. I am assuming a good number of those difference reflect their home lives, expectations more than the teachers. However, by giving kids a stage to play on for attention, drama often ensues...

[pman]

so apparently both philly (10) and pitt (8) are better metro areas to get a job than Denver

Below are the 10 best and worst cities to find a managerial job, based on online job postings and the scoring applied by CareerCast and JobSerf:
The Top 10:

• Washington, D.C.
• Boston
• San Francisco
• Seattle
• Atlanta
• Baltimore
• New York
• Pittsburgh
• Chicago
• Philadelphia

Pittsburgh among top cities to find a job - Pittsburgh Business Times:

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pman

so apparently both philly (10) and pitt (8) are better metro areas to get a job than Denver
[/list]Pittsburgh among top cities to find a job - Pittsburgh Business Times:

Nice. Pittsburgh is running with the big dogs. It's the smallest city on the list.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by pman

so apparently both philly (10) and pitt (8) are better metro areas to get a job than Denver
[/list]Pittsburgh among top cities to find a job - Pittsburgh Business Times:

The unemployment rates do not show that. Denver's is lower.

Metro Denver Business Economy & Economic Summary Archive

Denver is 77, Pittsburgh is 119. I think actual numbers, rather than "lists" based on all sorts of criteria having little to do with actually having a job, give a better picture.

Here is the criteria used in the link:

The index, by online human resources researchers CareerCast.com and JobSerf, measures U.S. managerial recruitment activity. Pittsburgh, Boston and Atlanta and were tops in year-over-year growth in online job postings, according to the report.

So Pittsburgh's online job postings increased, but there is nothing comparing the total number of on-line postings. And that is just one source for jobs.

[BrianTH]

Pittsburgh also sticks out regionally, since the bottom 10 includes a lot of cities traditionally viewed as Midwest peers of Pittsburgh:

The Bottom 10:

Riverside, Calif.
Detroit
Memphis
Tampa Bay
Miami
Cincinnati
Louisville
Phoenix
St. Louis
Minneapolis

Of course Chicago is on the Top 10 list too, and I think it is interesting to think about what Chicago and Pittsburgh might share in common despite their very different scales. Consistent with my prior musings on this topic, I am inclined to suggest that just as Chicago is the de facto capital city of the Great Lakes region, so is Pittsburgh the de facto capital city of the (admittedly smaller) Northeast Highland region, and that translates into things like more managerial jobs being created.

[Hopes]

I know we have a difficult time finding qualified people who live in Pittsburgh for openings at our company. This is a common problem for many Pittsburgh companies.

It also explains a difference between advertised jobs and unemployment rate. Pittsburgh companies look outside of the region for employees in various fields.

And we've learned that unemployment rate alone doesn't tell the whole story about a city's economy. There are many other factors like foreclosure rates, etc.

[threadyapparel]

Denver is an amazing place to live, not to mention beautiful! But the cost of living is expensive and if you want to live there you need to have some money or a nice job.
Pittsburgh is a great city, lot's to do and see, and great people. Does rain alot and can get very cold and snow in the winter. But it is affordable.

[pman]

be that as it may katiana, it's reason enough not to move to denver on the availability of jobs aspect alone.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by pman

be that as it may katiana, it's reason enough not to move to denver on the availability of jobs aspect alone.

The OP, Bench Warmer, checked with the union, I believe IBEW, in Denver and in Pittsburgh. In Denver, he was told he could get work. In Pittsburgh, last we knew, he hadn't even heard back.

The link from the Pittsburgh Business Times discusses the increase in online postings for managerial jobs. It doesn't say what the denominators were in any of these cities. For example (and I am just making up these numbers for illustration purposes, they are NOT, I repeat NOT real, lest someone tries to make a point with my numbers). I'll repeat that again, the numbers aren't real, they are for purposes of illustration.

Suppose Pittsburgh had 100 postings for managerial jobs a year ago at this time. Now they have 150. That is an increase of 50%. Now, suppose Denver had 200 listings, and now has 250. That is an increase of only 25%. It looks worse. But Denver still has more jobs. For the number to be meaningful, you need to know how many more jobs are being discussed. An increase from 1 to 2 is 100%. That's why these lists all have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[pman]

all numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt

Metro Denver’s unemployment rate fell from 6.9 percent in September to 6.6 percent in October. While positive on the surface, the decline mostly reflects an unfavorable trend: the count of Metro Denver’s unemployed is falling more rapidly than employment is increasing, which suggests that a considerable number of the jobless are abandoning their searches before finding work. The region’s unemployment rate could remain flat or even increase as labor markets improve, because many of those who left the labor force will resume a job search and will therefore be counted as unemployed.