Do You Think Pittsburgh Can Avoid A BOOM (Altoona, Duquesne: how much, neighborhoods)

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

I'm always amazed at people who have the ability to peer into the future and say, with certainty, (fill in the blank) will DEFINITELY happen/not happen. If I had been born with that ability, I'd dedicate almost EVERY SINGLE POST to using it, too.

And I'm always amazed at people who can't get a grip on reality, use their cognitive abilities to look at the big picture in full perspective, and see things for what they are. But hey...it's the interwebz and people are supposed to quarrel over random stuff.

[Tiger Beer]

I think I prefer Pittsburgh to just be what it is.

For the most part, the city just becomes a completely different place with a major boom. If you add 1,000,000 Puerto Ricans (or whatever group - Mexican, etc.) and suddenly one in every third person in the city is a Spanish speaker...and all of the signs are bilingual to accomodate them...and on and on and on. I don't really get the point. (I'm not anti-immigration, could really care less, but honestly, what is the point exactly?)

Combined with that, you get a major influx of yuppies and people who know how to make money off of it coming in from elsewhere, driving the price of everything and everyone out of the market. Suddenly working class people are scrambling to decide if the commute from Altoona is going to allow them home ownership or not, etc. Maybe it's better to just go to Little Rock instead, at least it's a city, etc.

Nah, I think Pittsburgh is JUST fine as it is. I mean, people are obviously living, working, attaining home ownership, on top of their bills, and raising kids...a major boom just means all of that goes out of whack...then the downside is post-boom - in the end, isn't it better to just 'be the place that provides all of your needs'...?

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I think I prefer Pittsburgh to just be what it is.

For the most part, the city just becomes a completely different place with a major boom. If you add 1,000,000 Puerto Ricans (or whatever group - Mexican, etc.) and suddenly one in every third person in the city is a Spanish speaker...and all of the signs are bilingual to accomodate them...and on and on and on. I don't really get the point. (I'm not anti-immigration, could really care less, but honestly, what is the point exactly?)

Combined with that, you get a major influx of yuppies and people who know how to make money off of it coming in from elsewhere, driving the price of everything and everyone out of the market. Suddenly working class people are scrambling to decide if the commute from Altoona is going to allow them home ownership or not, etc. Maybe it's better to just go to Little Rock instead, at least it's a city, etc.

Nah, I think Pittsburgh is JUST fine as it is. I mean, people are obviously living, working, attaining home ownership, on top of their bills, and raising kids...a major boom just means all of that goes out of whack...then the downside is post-boom - in the end, isn't it better to just 'be the place that provides all of your needs'...?

Agreed. Booms largely suck.

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

I think I prefer Pittsburgh to just be what it is.

For the most part, the city just becomes a completely different place with a major boom. If you add 1,000,000 Puerto Ricans (or whatever group - Mexican, etc.) and suddenly one in every third person in the city is a Spanish speaker...and all of the signs are bilingual to accomodate them...and on and on and on. I don't really get the point. (I'm not anti-immigration, could really care less, but honestly, what is the point exactly?)

Combined with that, you get a major influx of yuppies and people who know how to make money off of it coming in from elsewhere, driving the price of everything and everyone out of the market. Suddenly working class people are scrambling to decide if the commute from Altoona is going to allow them home ownership or not, etc. Maybe it's better to just go to Little Rock instead, at least it's a city, etc.

Nah, I think Pittsburgh is JUST fine as it is. I mean, people are obviously living, working, attaining home ownership, on top of their bills, and raising kids...a major boom just means all of that goes out of whack...then the downside is post-boom - in the end, isn't it better to just 'be the place that provides all of your needs'...?

Exactly....I don't necessarily think that people realize what a boom would do to the city. Look at the suburban sprawl of Phoenix, Carlotte, etc. Now try to imagine Pittsburgh, with its topography, network of neighborhoods, offset city core, circle of small towns in nearby areas, etc try to accomodate that type of rapid growth. It'd be ugly, and I don't think we'd be able to sustain it. We really do have a need to experience some modernization, and focus on keeping native talent within the area post graduation...that alone would give the city the makeover that a lot of people are probably envisioning. But tossing a quick 100,000-300,000 people into the city would probably be a disaster.

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Nice post. I wish we could put this one in a time capsule and return to it in ten years to see who is right.

I wish I would be wrong about it though. I mean people were having this exact same discussion that we are with the exact same points to make, and the exact same arguments...all taking place well over 20 years ago. Having said that, I'd absolutely love to lose this argument over time.

People tend to forget that all of those boom towns out there are part of a large network....Austin is the fastest growing city in the country, and San Antonio down the road is right behind, as is Dallas/Ft Worth, as is Houston, as is El Paso, as is neighboring Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, etc.....same thing applies to South Eastern cities in that the entire state/region is booming. We could buck the regional trend and see some small achievements in our city, but the entire NY/PA/WV/OH corridor would need to see large scale collective growth and improvement for a true boom to hit Pittsburgh. If such a thing ever did happen, we'd more or less be at the center of it though along with Columbus. Columbus is unique to the argument due to its insanely large university presence(OSU is one of the largest universities in the nation) pumping revenue, creating jobs, keeping students in the area post grad, expandning the city constantly, etc. But that's one city that's already there...Pittsburgh leveling off would be the start of a second city to add to the region's success rate and a base for other regional cities to try and feed off of.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues

And I'm always amazed at people who can't get a grip on reality, use their cognitive abilities to look at the big picture in full perspective, and see things for what they are. But hey...it's the interwebz and people are supposed to quarrel over random stuff.

So, my grip on reality is tenuous and my cognitive abilities are lacking because I don't think you can accurately predict the future (at least with the certainty with which you predicted it) based on unique events in the past (ie the steel bust)? Wow, you're a bottomless well of absolute definitive statements, aren't you?


For the record, I don't think a boom would be good either, or likely, if we're talking about a Charlotte-style finacial and population boom. I see more of a Portland, OR-style "psychological boom" being possible, where more people find Pittsburgh to be a desireable place to live and the national image of the city follows suit.

[TelecasterBlues]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

So, my grip on reality is tenuous and my cognitive abilities are lacking because I don't think you can accurately predict the future (at least with the certainty with which you predicted it) based on unique events in the past (ie the steel bust)? Wow, you're a bottomless well of absolute definitive statements, aren't you?


For the record, I don't think a boom would be good either, or likely, if we're talking about a Charlotte-style finacial and population boom. I see more of a Portland, OR-style "psychological boom" being possible, where more people find Pittsburgh to be a desireable place to live and the national image of the city follows suit.

That post was tongue-in-cheek, don't let it get your 'knickers in a twist. And I'd be all for a Portland type of growth, that's basically what we would need. I'd cry if I saw Pittsburgh sprawling out into Altoona like the post above mentioned.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

Making sweeping generalizations about an entire city based on your own limited perspective should incur the wrath of everybody on a message board, not just the "cheerleaders". The poster you're defending probably solidified their impression of Pittsburgh 20 years ago and is still living in the late 80s, the way other people moved away 30 years ago and have done nothing to update their own perceptions. It's very possible that people who have lived here that long and still get the cold shoulder from locals just bring something unlikable to the table. My neighbors were all very welcoming to me. I don't even like the Steelers, or football in general. Also, every single native I've met here totally understands why someone would want to live here, after getting over the initial shock that people actually are moving here by choice. It's called living through a couple of decades of the near-death of a city.

Enough with the thinly vieled criticism of me, creepsinc. I have no need to defend my Pittsburgh credentials. It's interesting that two of the biggest cheerleaders on this thread have never even been to Pittsburgh. Now, mind you, I have no problem with that, but isn't this forum for everybody?

[Tiger Beer]

Portland-growth would be fine...there isn't any boom occuring there either - at least not in the Atlanta/Houston/etc. manner. I think they are anti-boom as well.

Their lawmakers pretty much did everything to limit sprawl as much as possible...which is the reason people moved into the city of Portland itself, rather than deciding which of the dozens of sprawly suburbs to live...and in turn, built and created and made the city itself a desirable place to be.

Interesting that people there complain that the anti-sprawl measures hasn't allowed jobs to flourish in Oregon...but honestly, the sprawly other cities which had all of the construction jobs are worse off - high unemployment PLUS much worse foreclosure rates.

I guess that is another reason Pittsburgh SHOULD be anti-boom as well. Cities can either sprawl forever outward to Altoona with strip malls and highways and pavement over everything you can imagine...OR...a city can limit that, and people just move into the urban core and fix that up.

Fortunately, one of Pittsburgh's big plusses...they are forced due to geographical barriers to be the latter option...

[Katarina Witt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the city ever intentionally did anything to prevent/check sprawl. Pittsburgh has had a major out-migration for 30 years now, which took care of the sprawl problem.