PAT route changes in March (Oakland: garages, parking, best)

[Impala26]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So I looked up the T's vehicles on the CAF website, and their service acceleration was rated at 1 m/s2. PAT operates a lot of different buses, but I found a source which stated the typical range for diesel buses was 0.7-0.9 m/s2.

Ah ha! I thought electric vehicles accelerated faster than diesel-driven engines.

[Yac]

Before an interesting thread turns into a bar fight scene, I'd like to ask everyone involved to think twice, maybe even 3 times if necessary before posting any angry statements and/or personal attacks. Despite what some might be thinking, real discussion is possible without a forum war
Yac.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Impala26

Ah ha! I thought electric vehicles accelerated faster than diesel-driven engines.

Certainly you should be able to design electric vehicles that will out-accelerate comparable diesel vehicles, basically for the reasons given by Drover. The question was just whether the particular vehicles used by the T were designed that way, and indeed it looks like they were given decent acceleration as compared to typical diesel buses (and I bet the biggest PAT buses used on the Busways, which would be the fairest comparison, would be on the low end of that range at best).

All that said, it is still a question in my mind what sort of radial acceleration the T's vehicles can handle. I couldn't find anything about that on the CAF website, and I don't think we can assume commuter rail is a reliable proxy--if, as I believe I have heard, the problem is in the suspension and wheels, then that falls into an area where there are differences between commuter and light rail. Again this isn't something I am expert on and I am just looking to see if anyone has actual technical data, but to illustrate, here is a CTA train:



And here is a T LRV:

http://images.nycsubway.org/logo/title-pitt.jpg (broken link)



It seems possible to me that the former can handle higher radial acceleration than the latter. I again really don't have a dog in that fight (I've got entirely independent and in my view sufficient reasons for thinking we should leave the Busways to buses), but it would be interesting to me if someone actually had hard information on the subject.

[Blackbeauty212]

Here are all the bends and curves that we've disputed in this thread

Under Bloomfield Bridge - Notice how long that bend is.
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Right before the Neville Street Ramp to Oakland
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Under the Millvale Street Bridge
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Before Negley Station - Pretty Hard to Make out but there's an S curve there.
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Crossover Bridge before Homewood notice the distinct S
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=500+Grant+Str eet+15219&sll=48.922499,2.504883&sspn=11.961135,28 .081055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=500+Grant+St,+Pittsburgh ,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania+15219&ll=40.45588,-79.90677&spn=0.000452,0.000857&t=k&z=20


Ok - Here are the on/off ramps within the East Busway there are NO LIGHTS! at these points... They will have traffic light installed by PAT if the T was to share with the Buses...Based on what PAT has done with South Busway added below.

26th street
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Oakland Ramp - 4 way ramp
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

E Liberty Ramp A
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

E Liberty Ramp B
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

E Liberty Ramp C
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Wilkinsburg Ramp A
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Wilkinsburg Ramp B
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Wilkinsburg Ramp C
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps


South Busways Ramps where the T is Shared with Buses and there ARE traffic lights at every on/off ramp listed


Station Sq Tunnel
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps


Point where buses and T merge and diverge
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

On Ramp from Warrington - Look like construction at the time this was captured. But there is a light there
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Merge Ramp for the inbound Overbrook line
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

South Hill Junction A - Merge Diverge Point
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

South Hills Junction B - Merge at the Tunnel - Shade from the Trees maybe obscuring the view of the Traffic Lights.
500 Grant Street 15219 - Google Maps

Better Photographic Views of the South Busway at merge points
Mt Washington Transit Tunnel - Bridges and Tunnels of Allegheny County and Pittsburgh, PA

Here's a fact sheet from Sacremento which also had its LRT system built in the 80's from the same Vehical manufactor as PAT - "Siemens" - You will notice the Top speed for those Vehicals are 55mph and that more that likely on the Straight portions of ROW curves and bends are significantly slower.
Light Rail Fact Sheet - Sacramento Regional Transit

[captainmidnight]

Today is the day when the PAT starts putting up detailed information on the April 4th route changes.

They already have the PDF Route Schedules available for the changed routes: Route Schedules Effective April 4th

Apparently around noon, they are doing further changes on their site including the elusive interactive system map that will highlight the route changes on April 4th.

They are doing other information blitzes too: Port Authority website previews route changes

Good to see and I am anxious to see how this all plays out.

On a side note, PAT's Twitter account has done a great job this week providing instant route updates and communication. I joined Twitter just to follow their Twitter account. My hat is off to Heather Pharo: Port Authority takes to Twitter to report problems

[fleetiebelle]

Routes will be renamed, with many changed from a number-letter format (like 36A) to just a number. Light Rail Transit routes will shed their numerical designations in favor of colors. The 42C and 42S will become the Red Line; 47L and 47S the Blue Line; and 52 the Brown Line.

The Brown Line? That's the best they could do? That's not even a real color.

[Tinare]

I'm glad they rolled back the changes from March to April. Maybe we'll be thawed out by then...

[BrianTH]

It is very nice to see a 28x schedule that actually makes sense (i.e., no more Robinson loop).

The service frequency and staggering of the 61a and 61b are also nice to see. Now if we could just get a federal TIGER grant for Rapid Bus implementation . . .

[pman]

I believe the K cars (trolleys not unlike the T)in Philadelphia have similar acceleration speeds as the elevated (similar to chicago's). It is true that, by and large, electrics can have faster acceleration. this is evidenced by the difference in schedules for the Keystone corridor trains Amtrak runs versus the deisel powered P42's...the electrics have a lot more power under their hood than the diesels. It's important to note though, that the greater the crusing speed, the greater the amount of power required to get up to speeds o when the trolleys are moving faster, each additional stop uses more power (and hence costs more)...so at higher speeds, the basic idea of fewer stops, shorter trip times is backed up with cost improvements as well.

[captainmidnight]

My current route is being replaced by the P7. I looked at the schedule and it is running from 5:30AM - 7:30PM but in the approved changes list and maps prior to all this, they had the P7 running until 10:30PM. I wonder what changed?