Old Pittsburgh (McKeesport, Washington, Aliquippa: hotel, house, unemployed)

[Impala26]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

I fondly remember the above ground trolleys in downtown. I wish they hadn't built the subway. Instead they should have expanded the trolleys again.

I'm going to have to politely disagree. The advantages of the subway are giving trains their own private ROW separated from the bustle of traffic above.

I'm sure some around here can tell you, I long for this city to go back to using the old streetcars in at least some limited capacity. There is no doubt in my mind that using them in some areas would be beneficial BOTH as transportation and as an attraction. I mean, look at San Fran's cable cars, or even our own inclined planes as examples of this.

Such a "back to the future" approach I think would have great benefits for the Strip District and South Side, and I could even see a "loop" of sorts traversing the North Side finishing the job the new light rail there SHOULD have done. At least you could possible tie-in such a trolley line to the new light rail system there to serve the rest of the North Side.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Johnland

I realize the case for renewal/mass clearance of the Hill is not clearly open and shut. However, as the photo points out, the Lower Hill was an intact urban neighborhood connected directly to Downtown. True, it had seen better days by the 1940's, but so had Society Hill in Philly. That neighborhood was saved from destruction and ultimately rahabbed into a great neighborhood. While the Lower Hill probably did not have great underlying architecture like Society Hill did, it did have the asset of location adjacent to Downtown. In these 'back-to-city' times, the Lower Hill could've provided a viable downtown residential neighborhood.

Yea, it definitely looks like dense residential units adjacent to downtown are becoming the biggest targets for renewals in cities all over the US. Society Hill is a good example as are the villages of NYC or Ukrainian Village of Chicago.

[Mr. Humble]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

Yea, it definitely looks like dense residential units adjacent to downtown are becoming the biggest targets for renewals in cities all over the US. Society Hill is a good example as are the villages of NYC or Ukrainian Village of Chicago.

Right, I guess when they built the Arena the mass exodus to the suburbs was underway. No one could have foreseen then that people would actually want to live just steps away from downtown. Plus the Arena, with its retractable, dome-shaped roof was pretty big stuff, more than enough reason to displace 8,000 residents. As always, those with a little more money, property owners of row houses or shanties or commercial storefronts fared better than renters. My father actually owned a bar in the 600 block of Wiley Avenue, and he had the building to, he and my mother lived in an upstairs apartment. From what I remember him saying, he thought that whatever it was that he got for it was equitable under eminent domain.

[Mr. Humble]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

these stories are great. thing is, you can still have these personal days of glory here. this isnt the type of town that is THAT rushed that years go by before you are able to take a breath and realize the great situation you have in your life. its just that we dont realize this until years later, and think the best days are always behind us.

i love reading these personal accounts, but my family history doenst go back as far as others.
my parents came here in the 1960s, from italy. they lived in the once rather heavily italian areas of south oakland for a few years. i always assumed italian was a second language to pittsburgh (my world was small as a 3 year old). religious processions were held often from the local church (St. Regis) to the St. Lorenzo Society.
the older italian people were, well, smothering. they were so humble, devoted to their faith, and well-stocked with lunch meats and cookies. they were always related to the parents, somehow, but in a way i could never remember.

i cant imagine children playing out on Welsford Street or Parkview Avenue anymore like we did back in the very early 1970s.




thank you, impala! yes, i have had teachers in my college days decry the Arena as "negro replacement" and so on. i suspected this wasnt the case, that the pre-Arena Hill wasnt some urban multi-cultural paradise that it is purported to be. i found a number of accounts that said what you are saying - that by 1960 it was in decline, and dumpy.

Said a mouthful there, szug. Pittsburgh doesn't change as much as cities like NY or L.A. or other megalopolises, because you don't have that steady stream of development money coming in. But at the same time, it's what we lament about Pittsburgh. I guess somewhere in the middle is what we like, 'course everybody will call it somewhere else. By the way my mother's side came from Italy, and I do remember that part of Oakland referred to as a Little Italy. Wasn't that Danny Marino's neighborhood?

[Mr. Humble]

Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues

Here you go, have fun: The Brookline History Homepage

Just to get you started, this is found under Facts/Photos/History on the main link, it's a huge photo collection showing everything from how the point changed each year from 1750-2004 to old stadium plans, churches, etc. Just play around with it, there's an endless amount of photos/information: Brookline Historical Facts and Remembrances

I really enjoyed looking around those links, Telecaster, thanks. I spent some time in Brookline when I was a kid. It brought back memories.

[Mr. Humble]

Originally Posted by Impala26

I have heard great stories about the lower hill, but they usually describe the hill pre-WWII. From what I've pieced together, the lower hill was a shadow of its former self by the 1950's, labeled a "slum" by most. People always cite to the construction of the Civic Arena as a tragedy of "urban renewal". Personally, I neither defend nor support it. My history professor, Joel Tarr (see his book Devastation and Renewal: An Environmental History of Pittsburgh) told our class that he actually had a discussion with one of the civil leaders of the day who told him that the Arena's construction coupled with new public housing was virtually unanimously supported by not only city government, but African-American leaders of the hill as well. Unfortunately no one knew then what we all know now about public housing and sweeping demolition. So, yeah, it still is a tragedy, but it's more complex and gray than people often portray it as.

This is a good sum-up of what I've gathered from those that were displaced by the construction of the Civic Arena. If you had property there and wanted out they paid you well. If you rented and ended up in public housing, shiny and new, you might have at first anyway seen it as a step up from a shanty or a rented row house. One thing that we've missed so far in this discussion is the vibrancy of the Hill in those days. The night life was second to none in the city and ranked with the great night clubbing areas around the country. Found this great account of it...


Old Mon Music: The Crawford Grill

[BrianTH]

Although I agree it was a complex situation, there was definitely a racial/ethnic angle as well. I've quote this before, but here again is a relevant summary from the Crawford Square entry on Wikipedia:

Although the Hill District was known for its rich culture and diversity of residents (Jews and other ethnic groups remained a fixture of the neighborhood), Pittsburgh authorities began to see its density, proximity to downtown, and high proportion of African Americans as reason to target the district for “Slum Clearance.” As early as 1914, the Hill District’s African –American and immigrant groups were being condemned for their “moral vice.” The verbal and written condemnation of such African-American-dominated neighborhoods was a common occurrence as a post-industrial response to changing demographics and deteriorating urban environments in North American cities. This type of rhetoric was used to strategically discriminate against neighborhoods like the Hill District. According to reports on the Hill District, African-American girls and women from the South populated the worst of the Pittsburgh brothels—the “alley houses of the Hill District.” Later, increasing attention was given to housing conditions in the area. In 1946, the fledgling Pittsburgh Housing Authority published a report on “Negro housing needs,” condemning the propensity of African American communities for overcrowding. . . .

[Mr. Humble]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Although I agree it was a complex situation, there was definitely a racial/ethnic angle as well. I've quote this before, but here again is a relevant summary from the Crawford Square entry on Wikipedia:

Hey, I have no doubt there was a racial element. As I've said, my father was from that area below Crawford Street where the Arena went in. It was torn down a few years before I was born, so I have no first hand knowledge, but what I do know is that a lot of those families were "white". Now, I've checked this for this thread, and somewhere I read where they had a good two thirds of the displaced families as black. I can neither confirm nor disprove it, but that does seem high. What I know of the nationalities of families from that area is that there were an awful lot of Italian and Lebanese, the Irish and the Jewish mostly gone by then. Keep in mind, I'm talking about the area below Crawford Street. It's impossible to talk about Old Pittsburgh and not talk about The Hill District, it's oldest neighborhood. And you can't talk The Hill without talking urban renewal. I would suggest that though I'm sure there was a racial element, just as the criminalizing of marijuana was originally seen as a way to keep Mexicans in check, the determining variable as always was money. If you were an owner below Crawford Street you made out. If you weren't you didn't. Some things never change. Now, did much fewer blacks own than did whites? I am sure that was the case.

[Copanut]

Urban renewal = Negro Removal

[Brandon.]

I only moved to the Pittsburgh area recently but from what I hear and the pictures I have seen, Pittsburgh looked like a real shthole in the past.