on average how much is a 2 bedroom in Pittsburgh? (Washington: for sale, real estate)

[Angorlee]

I mean a two bedroom apartment to rent. Maybe this question is a bit too general since it depends on the area. But I mean a fairly nice area like the south side, shady side, or someplace like that. Obviously not the Hill district. How about Mt. Washington area?

[Angorlee]

how about the strip district?

[BrianTH]

This website lets you check rent statistics by Pittsburgh neighborhood (just click on the map or look down the list):

Pittsburgh, PA Apartments & Houses Rent Comparison, Neighborhood Rent Maps

I'm not sure where it gets its data, but right now for the median 2BR in Shadyside it has $1075, median 2BR South Side Flats is $1427, and median 2BR Mt. Washington is $713. Note you can click on the "Facts" for each neighborhood and get things broken down into smaller "block" units, and also information like $/sqft. For example, I was a little surprised about the South Side Flats, but it looks to me like the median 2BR might be in the South Side Works area, whereas the median 2BR in the older part of the Flats is actually $1175.

Anyway, I hope you find that a helpful resource.

Edit: Median 2BR in The Strip reported at $1640.

[Hopes]

Heck, I would never pay that much money to rent an apartment! You can own a house with a mortgage payment for less than that!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Heck, I would never pay that much money to rent an apartment! You can own a house with a mortgage payment for less than that!

Of course we are talking about some potentially pricey neighborhoods. Generally, if you look at comparable residences and factor in mortgage interest, taxes, insurance, maintenance, the opportunity cost of tying up your downpayment, and so on, renting ends up being a better deal for shorter periods of time, buying for longer periods of time. Which makes sense: if it wasn't a fairly close tradeoff, either property owners would be converting rentals to properties for sale or vice-versa, and the supplies of each would shift to restore this balance.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Of course we are talking about some potentially pricey neighborhoods. Generally, if you look at comparable residences and factor in mortgage interest, taxes, insurance, maintenance, the opportunity cost of tying up your downpayment, and so on, renting ends up being a better deal for shorter periods of time, buying for longer periods of time.

Since interest, taxes and insurance are included in most mortgage payments, I stand by my opinion that you can buy a two bedroom house and have a lower mortgage payment than rent you mentioned. Furthermore, two bedroom houses are dirt cheap.

Of course, it makes no financial sense for short term living.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Which makes sense: if it wasn't a fairly close tradeoff, either property owners would be converting rentals to properties for sale or vice-versa, and the supplies of each would shift to restore this balance.

It's not a fairly close trade off. Housing prices increase. Even if you sell the house for close to the same money, you get most your money back. Money spent on rent is merely wasted. You never get it back.

Rentals exist for people who need a short term residence, people who don't have credit to buy a house, people who don't have down payments, people who are too young to consider settling down, people who don't want the hassle of yard maintenance.....the list goes on. But rentals don't exist to save money. Even the cheapest apartment has a comparable house somewhere that costs less.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Since interest, taxes and insurance are included in most mortgage payments, I stand by my opinion that you can buy a two bedroom house and have a lower mortgage payment than rent you mentioned. Furthermore, two bedroom houses are dirt cheap.

So by my calculations, assuming you itemize deductions and including mortgage payments, taxes, insurance, maintenance (or something like condo fees), and the opportunity cost of a 20% downpayment, at current interest rates for the $1075 for the median 2BR in Shadyside, for an equivalent monthly payment you could buy around a $135,000 place (give or take).

Searching real estate listings, $135,000 happened to be the very lowest price a 2BR condo was listed for in Shadyside. You could also pay much more--I actually found a 2BR condo in Shadyside listed for $925,000! Of course none of this is a precise apples to apples comparison, but I think it is a fair bet an equivalent condo in Shadyside to the median 2BR apartment would end up costing significantly more in terms of monthly outlays, even after factoring in the tax deductions.

It's not a fairly close trade off. Housing prices increase. Even if you sell the house for close to the same money, you get most your money back. Money spent on rent is merely wasted. You never get it back.

Money spent on mortgage interest, taxes, insurance, maintenance, and the opportunity cost of your downpayment (by the way, I find many people overlook this last factor, but it is quite important) is also money you "never get back". Meanwhile, the average historic real appreciation on housing is actually pretty low, on the order of 1%.

Now given the implied rent savings, it is true that even a 1% real return can be just enough to make buying a home a better deal in a long-term scenario--for example, again provided that you were planning to stay long-term, you could reasonably spend a bit more than the $135,000 I calculated above on a 2BR in Shadyside, since you will get this small return in the form of appreciation and thus things like the principal portion of your mortgage payments can be viewed as an investment and not a cost.

But it is really much closer than many people seem to think--again, you would very likely need to spend more than $135,000 to get an equivalent condo.

Rentals exist for people who need a short term residence, people who don't have credit to buy a house, people who don't have down payments, people who are too young to consider settling down, people who don't want the hassle of yard maintenance.....the list goes on. But rentals don't exist to save money.

An often overlooked fact in these conversations is that many very rich people also rent at least some of their properties, particularly in high-cost areas. In part that is because once you get phased out of the relevant tax deductions, the numbers actually tend to swing against buying. In other words, if I hadn't been assuming you could deduct mortgage interest and local taxes, that $135,000 would actually have been much less.

The other thing I would note is that it is putting the point too strictly to say that someone would have to "need" a short term residence. With renting, it is easier to move on demand. Accordingly, you could rent simply to preserve flexibility, say in case you wanted the option to change jobs or careers without being tied to a specific location (and these days, many people are finding that could be a handy option whether they like it or not).

Again, I'm not saying buying is necessarily a bad idea: if you qualify for the relevant deductions, have a steady job/career, and really want to settle down in a particular community, it can be fine--which in fact is why we bought our home. It just isn't the slam dunk some people seem to think, and indeed it would make no economic sense for it to be a slam dunk (again, the ability of property owners to convert rentals to condos or vice-versa ensures a reversion to a rough balance over time).

Even the cheapest apartment has a comparable house somewhere that costs less.

I'm actually not quite sure what you mean here. For a property to be truly comparable, of course it has to have basically the same location. So, for example, while $135,000 could undoubtedly buy some pretty nice properties somewhere in the Pittsburgh Metropolitan Area, in Shadyside it actually probably won't buy you an equivalent property.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Heck, I would never pay that much money to rent an apartment! You can own a house with a mortgage payment for less than that!

You should see what I pay for 1 br in NY.....1100$ for a 2br is a DREAM....This is one of the reasons I miss PGH so much.

[mckeesport_alum]

Originally Posted by Angorlee

I mean a two bedroom apartment to rent. Maybe this question is a bit too general since it depends on the area. But I mean a fairly nice area like the south side, shady side, or someplace like that. Obviously not the Hill district. How about Mt. Washington area?

You are going to need to be more specific on the area and what you are looking for. A 2 BR in the Southside Flats will run anywhere from $500 - $2000 depending on the location and amenities. I think that price range will hold true to Shadyside as well. Mt. Washington and Southside Slopes are a little cheaper.

[minore7]

There was a lot of good calculations above, but take it from an investor who knows, there were many things not considered in "rent vs. buy calculations". All things are not equal, they favor the buyer considerably:
1. rent goes up every year. buying does not.( sometimes it can go lower) if rent went up $25 after the 1st year and each year thereafter tha twould be an extra 1200 at the end of 5 years.
2. rent does not include a garage. Pittsburgh's winters will wreak havoc on a car in an apartment parking lot. this includes being plowed in in the morning. So if having a garage is an extra 25 - 40 a month at the end of 5 years that could be an extra $2,400.
3. "IF" you lose your job you can take up to 6 months and in some instance 12 months before you have to be out. Try not paying rent for one month and see what happens.
4. Roommates - Having a roommate or two is perfectly fine with a home to offset the costs. Some apartments want more money for this.
5. soft costs - lets say you have a 12%-17% credit card with a $5,000 balance. if you took a Line of Credit (LOC) out and paid the credit card off with your 5% or less LOC, you've just saved 7 - 12% interest on 5k a year, plus the interests in some cases is write-offable. that's up to $600 a year in interest plus the tax benefit. Now where do you get the equity for the LOC? from the (oppurtunity costs of your downpayment" does that sound familiar from what you read above.? ;-) what better oppurtunity is it than to pay a high interest credit card or student loan with something that can be written off?
6. if you bought a house for $150k and sold it 5 years later for 140k it appears that you have lost 10k right? but you didn't come out worse because a)you needed somewhere to live in those 5 years and it would have cost you and b) if you would have paid 700 a month X 12 months X 5years = $42,000. So at the end of 5 yrs in this scenario you would have lost $32,000 more by renting. Now you may say (but you still needed a place to stay) but at the end of 5yrs, one person is out of 10k the other is out of 42k.
7. Car insurances are lower if you own a house. All insurances are higher for what they cover in an apt. renters insurances can add another 400 a year to your costs.
8. Do you like to keep your vehicle clean? well if you do and you are in an apartment 1 carwash every two weeks is roughly 30 - $40 a month(15 a wash plus a tip.,., if you tip). An entire water bill for a single person in a house will probably be less than $100 every three months.
9. 99% of all apartments you will have to pay lights and gas so to "say" or "think" that this is only a house expense is false. Also, maintenance is not FREE in an apt. You break it you pay to fix it.
10) last but not least. "IF" the apartment allows you to have a pet, they will charge you more rent/fees for having one. in some cases a 300 security fee plus an extra $75 a month. This IS NOT a homeowners expense.
10a) Try adding $1.50 to $2.00 a load for washing your clothes every week. three loads is $12 a week X 52 weeks =$624 a year X 5 years =$3120.00 This cost is 2/3rds more than if you owned a home.

i've been investing a looooong time and I really can't see why 90% of the people who rent an apt do it. I would rather rent a home with an option to buy it later than to rent an apt. The biggest advantage in apt. renting is if you like to live in the dowtown/City. no car, job across the street etc.