Confused about schools (City of PGH) (Pittsburgh, Liberty: fit in, neighborhoods, magnet schools)

[Stijl Council]

Hello! I've been lurking for a while and I have a feeling y'all have some answers about something:

I have an almost-four-year-old who'll be starting pre-K next year. We live in the Minadeo cluster in Squirrel Hill and are trying to figure out where to send her. I hear everything from "the city schools are great!" to "for the love of Christ, don't send your kids to any city of Pittsburgh school!" and everything in between. We are fairly new to the city and don't know many people with elementary-age kids who are in public school past kindergarten age. And to compound the matter, the schools seem rather shocked when you want to, say, take fifteen minutes to look around the place.

We're not terribly concerned with test scores so much as whether our kid will be comfortable, not bored, and basically be excited about learning. We've looked at Carlow and Kentucky Avenue also; we're leaning against a parish school because we're a mixed-religion family and not looking at W-T, St. Edmunds, Ellis, etc., because they're out of our budget.

So I was wondering:

1.) How's Minadeo right now? We've heard that it got shaken up a bit with redistricting and administration changes over the last few years, but how are things now?

2.) How are the magnet schools in the East End (Dilworth, Linden, Liberty, Montessori, Phillips)?

3.) What's the deal with Everyday Math? (A friend who teaches in a suburban district in another state has told me that it is To Be Avoided, but I'm not qualified in any way, shape, or form to evaluate math curricula.)

Thanks!

[likepgh]

We have a 2nd grader at Minadeo and have been happy with her experience so far. We are planning to send child #2 to kindergarten there next year.
I hope that Minadeo is not one of the school's that's been shocked when you want to look around. I know the principal and she seems interested in trying to attract families to the school. It's possible the office staff there or elsewhere expresses surprise but every principal should be willing to give you a tour. The previous principal at Minadeo gave my wife a tour when we were making our decision 3 years ago.

You say your child is starting pre-K? This works a bit differently--I don't know too much about it, but I think that even if you live in the Minadeo feeder pattern you would still need to apply for the pre-K slots (it's a lottery). I would call the school and ask. The feeder pattern doesn't kick in until kindergarten.

We have found the teachers at Minadeo to be caring and good at what they do, most are good at differentiating instruction to take account of the different academic levels of kids. (In a kindergarten class at Minadeo one will find kids who have never been to preschool and barely recognize letters and kids who are reading on a 1st or 2nd grade level and everything in between.) This year, they've added a gifted/talented enrichment teacher at the school to do supplemental activities for kids officially listed as "gifted" (PA treats "gifted" education like special education--a kid is tested and then given an Indidualized Education Plan if he or she qualifies) and for those kids not officially listed but who have been identified by teachers as being talented in particular areas. Yes, Minadeo (like all public schools in the NLCB era) pushes testing and drilling, but no kid there should be bored--the official policy of the school (pushed by the principal and the Parent-Staff-Community Council) is to serve all parts of the talent spectrum and have every kid advancing as much as possible.

(A high level of parent involvement--through the PSCC and the PTO--is also a plus for Minadeo. The principal does seems to respond to parent feedback. And Minadeo is very diverse socio-economically, racially, and culturally. For some this is not a plus--for us it was and is.)

There have been some growing pains as a result of the re-alignment of schools in 2005. Minadeo went from approx. 450 kids to approx. 580 kids. And many of those kids came from low-achieving schools. This led to some discipline problems (and some lower test scores) in the upper grades. The discipline issues seem to have abated this year-- teachers are reporting quiet and calm. (And Minadeo's building is set up with K,1,2 on the lower level and 3,4,5 on the upper level so even the discipline problems in the 5th grade last year did not effect the K,1,2 kids. The pre-K is in a different wing altogether.) Remember we are now in year 3, so kids in K, 1, 2 have had all their schooling at Minadeo and kids in 3, 4 have had most of their schooling at Minadeo. It's really only 5th graders who came in to Minadeo in 3rd grade from a low-achieving school who have not spent the majority of their elementary school years with the good teachers, high parent involvement, lots of parent volunteers, etc. environment at Minadeo. I would expect the test scores to go back up although perhaps not to the levels they were in 2003, 2004, 2005.
(For those who care about such things, Minadeo went to "warning" status this year under No Child Left Behind because although the overall test scores met the targets, they didn't meet the targets for three sub-groups-- African-Americans, economically disadvantaged, and special education.)

The plus side of the growth in the school is more money in the budget: for a Spanish teacher, for the gifted/talented teacher, for extra teacher aides, etc.

And Minadeo has kept up art and music even under the pressure of the NLCB tests.

So the short version is: Minadeo is still a fine elementary school and if you live in the feeder pattern I urge you not to dismiss it on the basis of the rumor mill. Please come see for yourself and talk to parents--especially parents in the primary grades.

I'm also no expert in judging a math curriculum but I have formed some opinions. So far Everyday Math does not seem to have terribly harmed my daughter but I think it's quite stupid. The main stupidity seems to be that in the hopes of kids achieving a "feel for numbers" the curriculum goes out of its way to avoid teaching the "conventional" way of doing simple calculations. For example, tonight's math homework asked my daughter to come up with creative ways of adding two digit numbers and then to come up with ways of making a "ballpark estimate" of the sums. This was driving my daughter a bit crazy. So I showed her a nice simple method: add the ones, carry the tens to the tens column, etc. I gave her several practice problems that she solved in a couple of minutes and then sent her back to the ones on the homework. She asked, "why didn't they just teach us this in the first place?" I thought that was an excellent question.

Sorry for the long answer.

[bradjl2009]

Yea IMO schools are really dumbing down math and making it more annoying and stupid; all in the effort that everyone is special so the lower kids who have problems in math get it faster and the smarter kids who do better conventions ways struggle more. Teach math the way it should be! Put now on topic, other than the Squrell Hill area and maybe some neighborhoods like Beechview and Brookline there aren't many neighborhoods I would live in and send my kids to public school. Catholic schools are a popular alternative for parents whos kids live in neighborhoods that feed to lower quality and lower income schools.

[Stijl Council]

No need to apologize for the long answer -- I appreciate it! Minadeo actually is one of the schools that seemed surprised when I called looking for a tour (the person I talked to in the office said, "I don't know who you'd talk to for that), but I'm sure I can work something out.

I'm not concerned about NCLB but I am glad to hear that teachers are good about differentiating instruction, that it's a diverse environment, and that art and music have been priorities -- those are all things that are important to us too. Thanks so much!

[msthang104]

Minadeo is a good school, but I would look into the magnet schools.

[sketchbooks]

I sent my daughter to public school from 1st through 5th grade. She went to Greenfield- that other school in the neighborhood which is referred to with some disdain, but which I thought did a good job in most subjects (the exception being everyday math- I don't like it either). I wished they devoted more resources to the early grades, but she had good teachers. And they had (still have, I hope) the best music program I've seen in an elementary school. The elementary test scores at the time were on a level with Minadeo's. Finally, it was three blocks away! Frankly, we had no major problem with the school until the restructuring of 2005 when her class went from 3 classes of 20 kids to 2 classes of 30 kids. After that she went to private school, and I probably would have tried to get her into a magnet school for middle school anyway.

So from what I heard about Minadeo and how its reputation was so much better than Greenfield, I think it will probably provide a fine start for your daughter. Some of the aspects of any school can't be planned for- the interests and behavior of the other kids in her grade, whether the teacher is having a particularly stressful year, changes in school board recommendations and priorities, etc.

If it isn't fine, changing schools is usually not that traumatic. The most important ingredient is really the education she receives at home.

[Sideblinded]

My son goes to Minadeo also. I think overall it is a pretty good school.

He is in 4th grade, we moved here from out of state mid/late 2nd grade. It took awhile for him and myself to adjust, but after a year or so he is really happy, therfore, so am I.

Is it perfect? Nope. Do they care about your kid? Yes.

You also have a lot of choices in terms of magnet schools, I am looking outside the Minadeo feeder pattern for Middle School simply because my son may fit in better at another school, however Sterrett is a Magnet School he auto qualifies for due to our zip code, and has a great reputation.

Pittsburgh has a lot of options if you, and your child are willing, motivated and open-minded to find a free excellent education.

Disclaimer: As I have stated before, my husband works for the district. I would/will take my son out of the district if I thought he was getting a sub-par education or was in an unsafe environment. So far, so good!!

[caroline2]

(In a kindergarten class at Minadeo one will find kids who have never been to preschool and barely recognize letters and kids who are reading on a 1st or 2nd grade level and everything in between.)

Really? Even at Minadeo? Hmm. We might need to seriously rethink our relocation plans.