Border Disputes and Stereotypes: Western Alleghenies (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: house, unemployment, to live)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Haha! Well I heard it was Arkansas.

Sure, the cities are different, but do you think the east and west parts of the state differ? I had heard that the Quakers, Mennonites, and Amish farmers were Penn's originals in the farmlands east of the Alleghenies, then the Scots-Irish and Germans arriving in the 1700s and pushing out over the mountains, with all the others (Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, Hungarians,etc.) coming from 1850-1940 or so. Do any of those regional differences persist, or is it all industrial vs. farming vs. mining these days?

Yes, the east and west differ a lot, even by appearances. The first time we drove across PA, DH, who is from Nebraska, said, "there is really a difference between eastern and western PA, isn't there?" I agreed. The western portion of the state is more rugged, the hills are higher, it looks "wilder" somehow. The eastern side is more rolling, and there is more farmland. It looks more eastern, with old stone buildings, stone fences, that kind of stuff. The mountains are in the middle.

I actually think the Amish and Mennonites were later arrivals than you think, will check tomorrow b/c I'm too tired tonight.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Haha! Well I heard it was Arkansas.

Sure, the cities are different, but do you think the east and west parts of the state differ? I had heard that the Quakers, Mennonites, and Amish farmers were Penn's originals in the farmlands east of the Alleghenies, then the Scots-Irish and Germans arriving in the 1700s and pushing out over the mountains, with all the others (Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, Hungarians,etc.) coming from 1850-1940 or so. Do any of those regional differences persist, or is it all industrial vs. farming vs. mining these days?

Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas. You can probably assume whenever someone brings out that tired cliche that they've never been to any one of those quite beautiful states. I have, and I don't really get the comparison to rural PA except that the rural areas of this country kind of resemble each other.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

Kentucky, Alabama, Arkansas. You can probably assume whenever someone brings out that tired cliche that they've never been to any one of those quite beautiful states. I have, and I don't really get the comparison to rural PA except that the rural areas of this country kind of resemble each other.

Well, that's the heart of it. Not to mention, it's a "city mouse/country mouse" situation, e.g. rural vs urban. I was hesitant to use that analogy in the first place, b/c it's not entirely accurate, but no analogy is.

[Herodotus]

Most large states are not really homogeneous. Cleveland and Cincy are probably as different as Philly and Pittsburgh. I would divide Pennsylvania into several regions.

Philly and environs. (including Reading, and Allentown)
South Central (Lancaster, York, Harrisburg etc.)
Forest (the northern tier)
Central Mountains
Erie region
Southwest (from Johnstown west, and south of New Castle)
Northeast (Scranton-Wilkes-Barre)

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Most large states are not really homogeneous. Cleveland and Cincy are probably as different as Philly and Pittsburgh. I would divide Pennsylvania into several regions.

Philly and environs. (including Reading, and Allentown)
South Central (Lancaster, York, Harrisburg etc.)
Forest (the northern tier)
Central Mountains
Erie region
Southwest (from Johnstown west, and south of New Castle)
Northeast (Scranton-Wilkes-Barre)

Large, diverse state?
Whenever I ask one of our many transplants where they are from (before California), they wrinkle up their nose and say "back east." As it all are the same. And I have a friend from California that talks about anything east of the Sierra Nevada as iceberg lettuce land. The real truth, including the french fries, would make her blood run cold...

But seriously, I think these regional characters within and across state lines are pretty interesting. Out here in Oregon, we have at least four regions, coast, NW (Willamette Valley), SW (Rogue Valley), Eastern. All have distinct climates, cultural and political geographies, and land uses. And on top of that the towns have quite diverse characters. I suppose it it the same in most states.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Large, diverse state?
Whenever I ask one of our many transplants where they are from (before California), they wrinkle up their nose and say "back east." As it all are the same. And I have a friend from California that talks about anything east of the Sierra Nevada as iceberg lettuce land. The real truth, including the french fries, would make her blood run cold...

But seriously, I think these regional characters within and across state lines are pretty interesting. Out here in Oregon, we have at least four regions, coast, NW (Willamette Valley), SW (Rogue Valley), Eastern. All have distinct climates, cultural and political geographies, and land uses. And on top of that the towns have quite diverse characters. I suppose it it the same in most states.

Seriously, the more wanna-be Californians (or eventual Northwesterners, or even Southwesterners) move west of the Rockies, the better "back East" gets.

Edit: I'm sure your friend is quite charming, otherwise.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Katiana

You've heard the expression: Pittsburgh on one end, Philadelphia on the other, and Kentucky (Alabama, etc) in between.

We always said Pennsyltucky.

[Fiddlehead]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

Seriously, the more wanna-be Californians (or eventual Northwesterners, or even Southwesterners) move west of the Rockies, the better "back East" gets.

Edit: I'm sure your friend is quite charming, otherwise.

Haha! Nice catch.

Actually, you are right. She is one of my favorite people. Funny as can be, but an unreconstructed Bay Area snob. And I agree that it is your gain to be rid of many of the poseurs, hipsters, hippies, latte sipping real estate flipping, and ecovegan warriors we tend to accumulate out here. That said, some of them are actually pretty cool. Gotta take the good and the bad. Being a guy who grew up in Buck Owens country (do a search on "Bakersfield" and "armpit" and see what you find), although I grew up in Porterville, just up the road, I have never felt in the position to act superior to anyone. But to defend the home turf, I will say we had some great dirt track racing and swimming holes! Rocky Hill Speedway and the Tule River are second to none. I am sure the West Alleghenies have some of the same great little nooks and crannies and just plain wonderful people that give regions their character.

Just an additional irony. In contrast to the LA Basin, which has the decency to bathe in its own carbonic and nitrogenous auto waste daily, the millions of inhabitants of the Bay Area of California, who love to portray themselves as more involved than just about everywhere else in the US (note Mayor Gavin Newsom's boycott of Arizona), actually has the benefit of having all its waste exported by prevailing winds into the less populated San Joaquin Valley, which is rimmed in by the Sierra Nevada and now has some of worst air quality in the US. So the Bay Areaenos can cruise through in their Priuses, look at the brown air, and have another reason to disdain the conservative, truck driving, knuckle-draggers of the Buck Owen's belt.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

^Eiww........Columbus is like Cranberry on steriods, Brian, i think you should definitely rethink that alliance. lol Columbus may arguably be more obsessed with the buckeyes than Pittsburgh is w/the steelers.....could be too close to call though.

Two good points, CG.

I've accompanied my wife on occasion when she teaches in Columbus. She had a seminar filled with 20 people for a Saturday, but by Thursday 9 people had cancelled. Seems there was an Ohio State game that night. But it was an away game that didn't start till 9PM., the seminar was over by 4. I guess they start partying at noon for away games. I think the obsession with the Buckeyes is greater than the one for the Steelers.

As to Cranberry-Columbus, semi agree, the suburbs all resemble Cranberry, but the Downtown seems like a smaller version of Pgh. Plus, I love Germantown!!!

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

Large, diverse state?
Whenever I ask one of our many transplants where they are from (before California), they wrinkle up their nose and say "back east." As it all are the same. And I have a friend from California that talks about anything east of the Sierra Nevada as iceberg lettuce land. The real truth, including the french fries, would make her blood run cold...

I'm in California, and I've run into that attitude. The funny thing is -- it's never from Native Californians... the few I've run into. It's the transplants. And it's wrong.

Being a transplant myself, I've held on to my PA roots. I'm proud of them. I'm not a yinzer -- I consider that Pittsburgh.... but I have strong ties to the Mennonite/"Pennsylvanian Dutch" of Bedford and Somerset Counties.

Honestly, years ago we were having one of those "what would we do with the lottery winnings" discussions -- we thought it would be great to buy and refurbish the Ship that used to be near Schellsburg on Route 30.... broke my heart when that place burned down.... that would have great B&B and restaurant.... add a little horse farm and riding stables to the mix.... get the Washington DC crowd up there....