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Why should the rural people have to pay for something that is of no benefit to them?
It's not fair.
. . . If most of CHINA has public transit -- and I'm talking about trains going through rice fields -- then the fact that I can't get back to Beaver County for Mother's Day is a crime.
Funding in this town is rarely expansive; all it does is improve or repair what we already have.
Oh, and the idea that people should have to get cars? I have kind of the opposite opinion. Maybe we should axe all private cars, and only build things along public transit lines. We'd certainly decrease the amount of money we pay to the wretched auto companies across the world, oil consumption, and fatal auto accidents.
. . . If most of CHINA has public transit -- and I'm talking about trains going through rice fields -- then the fact that I can't get back to Beaver County for Mother's Day is a crime.
Travel in nearly any half-developed country in the world and you'll notice how poor the transportation infrastructure is in here in the US. Especially, public transit. Heck, even our highways are in awful shape compared to what they have in China and Western Europe.
And to those complaining about tolling highways, France has car ownership rates that are roughly the same as the US and they pay out of their Gallic noses to use highways that are far better than anything we have in PA.
Pittsburgh's public transit usage is above the national average, but I think the main reason the scope of its public transit is not on the same level as places like New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston or Washington DC is because our traffic isn't nearly as bad. People will take public transit if it becomes a total pain in the ass to commute by car, but if it's not a total pain in the ass, then the freedom of a car is an asset. (This doesn't mean we should intentionally make it a pain in the ass to commute by car, though.)
Pittsburgh's public transit usage is above the national average, but I think the main reason the scope of its public transit is not on the same level as places like New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston or Washington DC is because our traffic isn't nearly as bad. People will take public transit if it becomes a total pain in the ass to commute by car, but if it's not a total pain in the ass, then the freedom of a car is an asset. (This doesn't mean we should intentionally make it a pain in the ass to commute by car, though.)
I agree with you here. It also goes to explain how Pittsburgh's transit usage is primarily commuter-oriented rather than "lifestyle" oriented. In order to be lifestyle-oriented you need at the very least fairly frequent service (doesn't have to be FAST, but that would be a plus) and service even into the odd hours of the night. The current Port Authority model doesn't really offer this, especially on weekend when people tend to do much of their shopping and other activities.
The other point of this is that, even as cheap as bus fares are for one person, this really isn't the same case with a family of four or more or other groups of people. I forget who suggested it, but they suggested PAT using a new type of pass that serves basically as a "weekend/party" pass for several people for unlimited rides. I still think this fails to address pretty infrequent service on the weekends.
The Port Authority is still a mess, and I personally think they could use a new marketing campaign. The TDP is a good start, but I think the merits of transit really need to be advertised. Start with a new website (how hard is that to manage, really?), post bus schedules at bus stop signs and shelters, and for God's sake make a full system map. I think these are perfect "low-hanging fruit" for PAT, and could bolster ridership.
As antiquated as PAT is to some extent, it's still the lifeblood of the city. Drastic service cuts and fare hikes could really hurt the region, so let's hope those in Harrisburg form a solid contingency to the I-80 tolling plan.
This is a problem almost everywhere in the U.S.--suburban office parks and such are poorly suited for public transportation, but you can't build a superhighway from every point to every other point in a metro area, so the end result is lots of long, congested, gas-guzzling commutes. The model is unsustainable--higher gas prices alone are going to kill it, and people are also getting frustrated with the commutes--but it is going to be a rough transition since so much of recent development has followed that model.
The building and maintenance costs of a highway are $0.18 per mile per car in an urban area of a flat-land state with more empty land and lower construction costs than Pennsylvania. You could probably double, triple or quadruple this number for a road in a rural, mountainous area such as I-99. Revenue from fees and taxes on automobiles and fuel come nowhere near this amount. That means most rural roads, and most urban freeways are being heavily subsidized by other tax monies.
The freaky, illogical thing is hearing people scream, moan and complain about $16 million being spent on a light rail line and barely a peep about $16 billion being used to expand a freeway. You're right; this is definitely unsustainable and amounts to nothing but government subsidization of sprawl.
Rural folk don't understand - Philly and the Burgh are the Economic Engines of PA they pretty much fuel the economy of the state and where the majority of the taxes are guzzled from.
Upstate NY residents are the same way...they forget that NYC is the bread and butter of NYS and that the majority of tax $$$$ comes from Downstate and not Upstate.
If PAT and SEPTA have to cut service to the bare bones....this will effect the vibrancy of these population centers greatly...and as Both Cities are trying desperately to who people and jobs to their regions...How do you think they would look without have adequate Public Transit....Healthy Robust Public Transit is look at as an asset, a plus in many people's eye when eying a new city to move to....
upstate New Yorkers have a valid complaint, actually. NYC dominates Albany in a way that neither Philadelphia nor Pittsburgh dominate Harrisburg. For decades taxpayer funded projects went to NYC while upstate communities saw little to no investment. It's really not completely accurate to say "NYC generates all the revenue" since, in part, it's because they get all the investment. Worse, so long as the NYC cash cow is producing, NYS will never address the fundamental problems of the rest of NYS.
Anyways, office parks are simply hard to serve well unless they were built next to transit routes or are sufficiently dense. It's a problem even in cities like Philadelphia and Chicago where transit systems may be more extensive. I completely understand the I80 grief. It was a stupid idea to begin with. the feds were going to reject it since rules state the money must go for maintenance of the road. Had PA tried to toll it topay for maintenance of I80 and redirected those funds, it would have been approved. Sicne they were greedy and tried to pay for all transit, it got rejected. Now they're stuck doing what they should have done in the first place, finding a fair and sustainable method of funding transportation. I'm not against paying tolls so long as they fund improvements to the areas they serve. Do you want to pay tolls to fix Erie's roads or Pitt roads? In addition to tolling, increased local contribution should be a part of the mix. It's my understanding that the increase in education funding proposed this year could cover the transportation gap for this coming year (in the long run, tey need more capital)
That's nearly 1 in 3 commuters walking or taking PAT to work. Though, I do assume these numbers are for those living in the city itself, not the metro area or county.
Not everyone can afford a car. Not just buying a car. Insurance, maintenance and gas cut a huge chunk out of someone's budget. That is why I choose not to own a car. I pay $105 a month for a monthly bus pass. I bet it costs more than that a month for car expenses. Sorry,it's not that simple.
I live in Allegheny County and so are our county parks. These aren't rural areas.
Note: Not sure if you were directing your comments toward me, if not sorry
Now you get my point.
I pay $1200 a year just for car insurance, I pay over $200 a year for plates, I pay $75 a year for state inspections, I pay on average $400 a year for tires, I pay $100 a year for oil changes, I pay on average $3000 a year in car payments.
The person living in the city, can just say I'm not going to pay and buy a bus ticket for $105 a month and still come out about $5000 ahead....
If you want to justify the expense of running the bus just for you, then they ought to run a bus just for me. Often times in order to just find a job, I have to travel on average 50 miles one way just to get to work.
It was costing me $125 a week in gasoline just to work in Export PA.
What you people do not see is that all the food, all the clothes all the fuel oil, all the gasoline, all the building materials is hauled over I 80 and that if you toll I 80, the cost of those delivered materials will go up.
Why should I pay more for a gallon of gasoline to get to work, just so that some person in the city that refuses to spend their money on a car can ride the bus? It doesn't make any sense. There isn't anyone at Sheetz that says that I am a good customer and I should get my gasoline for free or at a reduced rate. There isn't anyone at Penndot that says that I should get my plates for a reduced rate because I travel more miles and pay more road tax then the average resident of PA. But Penndot did say that because automobiles are now more fuel efficient that they are thinking of putting a tax meter on the gasoline pump which would ask you to enter in the odometer reading every time you buy a gallon of gasoline - that way they could charge me a road tax on top of the price of the gasoline for every mile traveled in Pennsylvania. So the person driving the Honda that gets 40 or 50 miles to the gallon is going to pay the same road tax as I do driving a Avalanche that only gets 14 mpg. That's not fair either because I buy three times more gasoline.
Travel in nearly any half-developed country in the world and you'll notice how poor the transportation infrastructure is in here in the US. Especially, public transit. Heck, even our highways are in awful shape compared to what they have in China and Western Europe.
SO TRUE!
Actually as a person who has spent about ten years living in Asia and South America...and been to most of the poorest countries in both continents...I can quickly say that public transportation in the U.S. ranks as some of the very worst in the world.
THANKFULLY, reading this thread, Pittsburgh has a lot of smart people who do see and value what good public transportation can do.
There will come a day, where the existing network of massively massively maintaining this enormously large road and highway system...will be perceived as unsustainable. Bridges and highways don't just last forever without ever needing any repair for all eternity. They age. They also cost money.
Either a city builds train and subway stations...and allow development to build up around the stations...and housing...and all the economic growth that goes with it. Or you just forever build and repair bridges and highway paving over every inch of earth you have for 100s and 100s of miles radiuses spreading forever outward. One way or the other, it'll cost you a fortune to repair and maintain. Either the smart way or the 'dumb' way.
The smart way, is just plain more sustainable, and significantly more people-friendly.
Now you get my point.
I pay $1200 a year just for car insurance, I pay over $200 a year for plates, I pay $75 a year for state inspections, I pay on average $400 a year for tires, I pay $100 a year for oil changes, I pay on average $3000 a year in car payments.
The person living in the city, can just say I'm not going to pay and buy a bus ticket for $105 a month and still come out about $5000 ahead.....
I LOVE PITTSBURGH PEOPLE AND THEIR THINKING!!
Yep, SO TRUE. When I lived in NYC, my 'transportation' expensive was $65/month for unlimited subway usage. Just bought my monthly pass.
When I'm back visiting family in Michigan...I fill up my car twice over a few days, and spend $65 easily.
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