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Old 09-02-2010, 12:06 PM
 
9 posts, read 15,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post
Especially in today's economy, I can't imagine a developer building a free standing resturaunt building as a "spec". Also, I'm not sure whether IHOP has any sort of "signature" architectural look to their stores, but enough resturaunts do (Denny's all look like Denny's, Olive Gardens all look like Olive Gardens, etc.), that it would be pretty risky to go ahead and build something generic and hope to rent it.

I'd be willing to bet there's a pretty ironclad lease already signed and paid on.
mmm Depends on where you are ... look at some of the controversial projects recently downtown and the Bakery Square project on Penn, all built speculatively; and the reason being government grants and loans. Many developers aren't risking their own money or a great deal of their own money, they're risking taxpayer money.

And guess what, the people who own and are developing that Browns Hill stretch are some of the very same who developed that hideous stretch of McMansions behind called Summerset at Frick all on the public's dime.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,183,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PittNorth View Post
mmm Depends on where you are ... look at some of the controversial projects recently downtown and the Bakery Square project on Penn, all built speculatively; and the reason being government grants and loans. Many developers aren't risking their own money or a great deal of their own money, they're risking taxpayer money..
I did say "free standing". Bakery Square certainly isn't that. The rest of that strip on Browns Hill, I'll grant you may not have been leased before it was built, but it wasn't free standing either.

Quote:
And guess what, the people who own and are developing that Browns Hill stretch are some of the very same who developed that hideous stretch of McMansions behind called Summerset at Frick all on the public's dime.
Quote:
the location is owned by one of two local development companies; Browns Hill Land Company (Union Real Estate) and Browns Hill Venture LP ...
I know some of the people who are involved in Summerset Land Development Associates. I can't say I know anybody from either of the 'Browns Hill' entities you mentioned. Which people are involved in both?

And you're so right about those hideous McMansions there in Summerset. What idiot would think of covering a perfectly good, barren, 238 acre, 180 foot tall, pile of slag with an upscale residential neighborhood, that's a 10 minute commute from either downtown or Oakland? Sheesh!
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: North Oakland
9,150 posts, read 10,824,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post
And you're so right about those hideous McMansions there in Summerset. What idiot would think of covering a perfectly good, barren, 238 acre, 180 foot tall, pile of slag with an upscale residential neighborhood, that's a 10 minute commute from either downtown or Oakland? Sheesh!
I take your point, but does such housing have to be those eyesore McMonstrosities?
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
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I'm not sure where you draw the line between McMansions and more appropriate unit sizes, but really there aren't that many that are that big. The ones that are are referred to as "Estate Homes", and they're in the minority. Much more common are "Village Homes", the townhouse units (I forget what they're supposed to be called), and "Cottage Homes". There are a couple of apartment buildings mixed in there as well. The Estate Homes are only situated along Parkview Blvd.

The concept is that it's to be a "new traditional neighborhood"--in other words, it's supposed to look a lot like a lot of existing city neighborhoods. I won't claim to be qualified to be the judge, but it seems to get generally positive reviews from others...
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:40 PM
 
Location: North Oakland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post
I'm not sure where you draw the line between McMansions and more appropriate unit sizes, but really there aren't that many that are that big. The ones that are are referred to as "Estate Homes", and they're in the minority.
I've never seen the place, except driving by. I was going by what Pitt North said. Anything that mixes architectural styles the way typical McMansions do is butt-ugly IMO, though. Won't be the first time my taste doesn't match that of the majority of Americans.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:54 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
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You can do a virtual drive through of about half of what's there now by using Google Maps Street View.
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:07 AM
 
781 posts, read 1,612,171 times
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Sommerset is a nice neighborhood, and the homes are far from mansions. I do understand the McMansion reference. It is a mix of condos, townhouses, apartments and houses that range from less than 2k sq feet to (I am making a guess here) 4k sq feet. It has a pool, park and community center. The houses have front porches and your garage or parking is behind the home.

Since I have kids, I would have bought there in a minute if money was not tighter. It is not expensive, but it is for Pittsburgh. Finding a kid friendly neighborhood in the city is not that easy.
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Old 09-03-2010, 04:13 PM
 
9 posts, read 15,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchdigger View Post

And you're so right about those hideous McMansions there in Summerset. What idiot would think of covering a perfectly good, barren, 238 acre, 180 foot tall, pile of slag with an upscale residential neighborhood, that's a 10 minute commute from either downtown or Oakland? Sheesh!
The location and previous condition of the property is kinda of irrelevant to the discussion. The wisdom of using tax subsidies to build housing in neighborhoods that are already suffering population losses and declines in housing values is.

Like the Waterfront did to existing businesses in the surrounding area, like Sq Hill and the Century III Mall, that project has had the impact of depressing housing values. There are homes with in several blocks, on Rosemoor st and Ludwick st that I just happened to look at in the past few days for another reason that my wife and I looked when we were buying that have declined nearly 40% since Summerset opened... if you were looking for a house in the neighborhood and could choose between 100 year old housing stock and brand new homes at artificially low(er) prices courtesy of tax payers subsidies what do think most people are going to choose?

The term used to describe using taxpayer money in this fashion in economically depressed regions where population is steadily declining is "cannibalizing your markets." For every person(s) who got shiny new taxpayer subsidized house in Summerset, two existing homes some where else in Squirrel saw their value decline way beyond the rest of the market.

It may make good politics to brag about new homes close to the city built on formerly barren land but long term the effects on the immediate area very, very destructive.

Last edited by PittNorth; 09-03-2010 at 04:51 PM..
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Old 09-03-2010, 09:02 PM
 
Location: About 10 miles north of Pittsburgh International
2,458 posts, read 4,183,555 times
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Quote:
The location and previous condition of the property is kinda of irrelevant to the discussion.
Well actually, the discussion is about IHOP, but you brought up "that hideous stretch of McMansions behind called Summerset at Frick". Do you think the slag dump was less hideous?


Also, I just looked at sales listings in Squirell Hill. Rossmoor St and Summerset is comparing apples to oranges--they're not in the same price range to begin with. Based on that, I'm not sure how you're able to reach the conclusion you did.

And I'm curious, since you seem to be very upset about "using tax subsidies to build housing", what exactly do you understand the role of tax money at Summerset to be?
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Old 09-04-2010, 01:02 AM
 
781 posts, read 1,612,171 times
Reputation: 293
I just want pancakes!
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