Declining City Neighborhoods (Pittsburgh, Liberty, Highland Park: apartment, crime rate, mortgage)

[BrianTH]

I agree that population growth in the City is key, and I think we are close and maybe already there . . . but there are an awful lot of neighborhoods that could get into the line.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by markburgh

I would like to be able to walk but don't think either of us is an urban pioneer.

If you really like to walk, make sure whatever places you look at aren't on a hill.

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

I would. It is gross there. People get shot and all kinds of screwed up stuff happens on the North Side. They've been trying to make Mexican War Streets/North Ave. a second Shadyside for years now. Has it worked? No. Maybe in ten more years or so of gentrification. You wouldn't believe some of the **** I have seen on Federal Street.

An out-of-town visitor insisted on seeing the Mexican War Streets. He'd heard it was the Gayborhood of Pittsburgh, and he had to see it. He was so disappointed. He kept insisting we weren't in the right neighborhood, we were on the wrong block, but no, this is the MWS.

I seem to recall that the poster who was talking the MWS up likes Lawrenceville for its architecture.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I agree the MWS is likely to be a much less transitional area in 10-20 years.

That's what they were saying 10-20 years ago.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by jay5835

That's what they were saying 10-20 years ago.

Yeah, no guarantees. Still, I think the next 20 years is likely to look a lot different than the last 20 years.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by jay5835

I seem to recall that the poster who was talking the MWS up likes Lawrenceville for its architecture.

What's your point?

A lot of people like the architecture of MWS, Lawrenceville, South Side, Bloomfield. That's why these are popular neighborhoods. Row-houses are cool.

The MWS, to my knowledge, is Pittsburgh's only intact 1850s neighborhood. Maybe streetcar suburbs or vinyl village is your thing. I can't say. But people who love Victorians love MWS. It may not be Mt. Vernon, Baltimore, or Rittenhouse Square, Philly, but it's the closest you can get to that in Pittsburgh.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by jay5835

That's what they were saying 10-20 years ago.

And it is less transitional than it was 10-20 years ago. 20 years ago it was practically Dresden circa 1945. 10 years ago is when the revitalization momentum was in full swing thanks to a grant program used to fund rehab efforts. I don't know if MWS will be substantially better 10 years from now. But if Pittsburgh ever goes through the sort of mass-scale revitalization other cities have experienced, the last remaining marginal elements will be pushed out and MWS will become an extremely pricey area, along with much of the rest of the near north side (Allegheny East/West, Manchester, etc.) All a big "if," of course.

I took a tour of a MWS rowhouse for sale a couple years ago. It was 4 stories, not even counting the basement. Fully rehabbed, something like 5 or 6 bedrooms, 2 full baths and a couple of half-baths, I'm guessing a total of some 2500 sqft. Asking price: $159K. And that included a vacant lot up the block. Even without the vacant lot thrown in to sweeten the pot, that's a lot of house for that price range, especially one that needs nothing but a new owner. If you can deal with some of the vagaries of living in a transitional neighborhood, something like that is really hard to beat, especially being so convenient to downtown. For some folks, the tradeoff is completely worth it. For others, not so. If I were in the market, I'd have been sorely tempted.

[ferraris]

It looks like the MWS already is a bit pricey, especially if it is coming with stern warnings about it being a transitional neighborhood.

$85Kfor a shell of a home

Nicer homes were listed all the way up to the $300K range, might pricey for an area that still carries such a stern warning.

Full disclosure: I am really not all to familiar with the area, I have walked around there on a few occasions and not felt unsafe at all, though. So maybe these warnings aren't any more merited than when my coworkers tell me to be careful in my neighborhood, Bloomfield.

EDIT: As soon as I posted this, I noticed that it suggested I also look at this home: $69K for a beautiful home just blocks from the shell above, which is an Amazing deal. I plan to be in the market for a home within the next year and a half or so, and MWS is officially on my list now.

[Renaldo5000]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

So maybe these warnings aren't any more merited than when my coworkers tell me to be careful in my neighborhood, Bloomfield.

They must be suburbanites. Bloomfield is one of the safest neighborhoods in the city.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by iwonderwhy2124

They must be suburbanites. Bloomfield is one of the safest neighborhoods in the city.

Bingo.

[BrianTH]

I'd say the trajectory of some of the neighborhoods around the MWS is at least a legitimate issue to discuss. Warnings about Bloomfield are just silly (subject to standard advice about appropriate precautions in urban commercial areas, which apply just as well to Shadyside, or Manhattan, or Paris, and so forth).

[Drover]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

It looks like the MWS already is a bit pricey, especially if it is coming with stern warnings about it being a transitional neighborhood.

$85Kfor a shell of a home

Nicer homes were listed all the way up to the $300K range, might pricey for an area that still carries such a stern warning.

Full disclosure: I am really not all to familiar with the area, I have walked around there on a few occasions and not felt unsafe at all, though. So maybe these warnings aren't any more merited than when my coworkers tell me to be careful in my neighborhood, Bloomfield.

EDIT: As soon as I posted this, I noticed that it suggested I also look at this home: $69K for a beautiful home just blocks from the shell above, which is an Amazing deal. I plan to be in the market for a home within the next year and a half or so, and MWS is officially on my list now.

I'm guessing those in the 300K range are not only fully restored but also pretty big. You'd be surprised how much interior space some of these places have for such a small curb front -- some of 'em are pushing 3,000sqft or more. To get the same amount of space in, say, Shadyside or Squirrel Hill, you'd probably be paying at least 200K more. And the ones commanding $300K today will probably command twice that much in pretty short order if the region's real estate market ever takes off.

A co-worker of my ex lived in a rowhouse in East Allegheny (which I guess has re-branded itself as Deutschtown ), which was still pretty rocky back then so she got it for next to nothing. Didn't look like much from the outside, but inside it was bloody cavernous. It just kept going on and on, room after room, three levels worth. It was astonishing.

The $69K one is that cheap for a couple of reasons: 1) while it looks perfectly habitable, it doesn't look like it's been restored to "period-correct" status (those are the ones that fetch the most); and 2) that's right on the edge of the 'hood.