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I agree and to be honest, while it may be considered living in the past, you just can’t get away from what your family has instilled in you! For instance, during slavery Blacks could not buy property. After the abolition of slavery, here comes the Jim Crow laws that lasted through the 1960’s which SEVERELY impacted a Black’s ability to buy property, earn a living that could result in wealth, etc. So, when one can’t buy property to prove they’ve “made it” what else is there to “show” the world that you’re a success? Flashy cars, flashy clothes, flashy jewelry, etc. By the time Blacks were able to buy property, I’d argue that some had reached a point where that level of achievement was no longer important….it had lost its relevancy in their lives; it was relegated to something that “white people did”.
For those that harp on the “living in the past” stance, I really wish there could be a true understanding of what it means to have those values instilled in you as children. It brings to mind racists…were they born racist? How did they become that way? Who instilled and fostered this mindset? Same thing with Blacks who are uninterested in financial achievement….were they born lazy? How did they become that way? Who instilled this mindset?
If I were to trace it I think of it this way:
A slave is born
Her child is born and learns all about oppression/slavery from her mother
Slavery is abolished, but that young child still knows the things she was told about slavery/oppression. She has a child and teaches her child about the history of oppression for Blacks. That child has a child, and so on…..
So yes, the experience of oppression has become watered down through the generations, but even as recent as the 1960’s Blacks dealt with extreme racism. The effects of this aren’t going to disappear in a mere 50 years. Indeed, many people who suffered under Jim Crow laws are alive today and are telling their great-great grandchildren about the struggles they faced…once again introducing the concept of oppression.
Thank you for this perspective. It is truly a beautiful and touching post and does explain the historical perspective. But, at what point does one generation look at it as history...and take the responsibility of changing history?
so, i'm just getting back from lunch...and i did some thinking while i was away....i revisited this thread, and i'm finding myself having to admit to something...
first off, i just read "ChocLot's" post, and i enjoyed reading it...made some real good points.
secondly, when i posted the above posts, i was relying very heavily on my brain...i don't know about you or anyone else, but sometimes my brain and my heart struggle with certain issues...and the above posts definitely came from my brain...no my heart.
so, here's what my heart tells me...No, i don't believe any other race would be in any better shape, all circumstances the same, as how the blacks are doing in this day and age.
ChocLot's description of how some black men view being a man is very interesting...i'm wondering how true this view really is? it makes sense...
with all that being said, and assuming that we all agree that there isn't a race that would do any better given the same circumstances, where do we go from here?
would it change anything? obviously, blacks will never get those years of slavery back...
i just don't think the admition that any other race would be in the same shape as the blacks really does anything to help the cause...and the only way i see any improvement will come from within the black community...and not waiting on some other race to save the day.
Why would truth not be of value or benefit? I beg to differ. There is such a thing as low self esteem and hence there is such a thing as low esteem based upon race. For example, there used to be a saying VERY popular among blacks. “If a black man and a white man were selling ice, blacks would buy ice from the white man because they believed that the white man’s ice is colder”. This clearly speaks to a lack of confidence or respect that many black people have in black people. Where did that lock of confidence and respect originate from? It originated from centuries of being told that black is inferiority to white. Why does the concept of “good hair” and “bad hair” exist still also? It’s yet another legacy of black inferiority relative to white. It says that hair that is mixed is better “good” than hair that is naturally black (bad hair”, because it’s harder to manage. It’s how God made and designed us….but we see it as “bad” hair and what God created for whites is “good”. About a month ago, I presented a video of little black kids, probably ages 4 – 6, who were asked what doll was the good doll and what doll was the bad doll, and what doll was the pretty doll and what doll was the ugly doll, between a white doll and a black dolls. The majority of the black children picked the black doll as the bad and ugly doll. It’s serious.
Hence, the TRUTH is that we are just a good, we are just as beautiful, we are just as hard working, and we are just as responsible as any other group of humans…..if we are treated like everyone else. What black people get, however, is constant bombardment of the opposite belief…implicitly and subliminally from society. That perpetuates black’s negative view of blacks, which many blacks have. Once the low esteem is removed from POSITIVE REINFORCMENT OF THE TRUTH ABOUT OUR CONDITION AND THE WHYS, we will reach the sky.
Obviously there is a wide spectrum of behaviors, each with a likely result. For example, the behavior of going to school and choosing to study and go to college yields better economic results, in most cases, than dropping out early. The same goes for teen pregnancy. Is it a black behavior or a white behavior? My answer is neither, it's a behavior with consequences that play out over a lifetime. Black, white, hispanic etc. all have many examples of these behaviors.
If one particular group appears to be adversely affected by certain behaviors more than others, it warrants examination. In my experience, there are a wide variety of influences that predict these behaviors in people, and skin color does not show up on the list. There may be more people of one color or another that exhibit certain behaviors, but I have never seen the behavior adequately explained by skin color. The things that do make sense as an influence have more to do with the people in their immediate ecology and how that influences their interaction with the broader world.
I don't have a problem with anything that you said. What does differ is the treatment of the races in this nation and that different treatment IS the cause of the socioeconomic gaps in this country. Its not a difference in humanity, its a difference in human experiences.
Why would truth not be of value or benefit? I beg to differ. There is such a thing as low self esteem and hence there is such a thing as low esteem based upon race. For example, there used to be a saying VERY popular among blacks. “If a black man and a white man were selling ice, blacks would buy ice from the white man because they believed that the white man’s ice is colder”. This clearly speaks to a lack of confidence or respect that many black people have in black people. Where did that lock of confidence and respect originate from? It originated from centuries of being told that black is inferiority to white. Why does the concept of “good hair” and “bad hair” exist still also? It’s yet another legacy of black inferiority relative to white. It says that hair that is mixed is better “good” than hair that is naturally black (bad hair”, because it’s harder to manage. It’s how God made and designed us….but we see it as “bad” hair and what God created for whites is “good”. About a month ago, I presented a video of little black kids, probably ages 4 – 6, who were asked what doll was the good doll and what doll was the bad doll, and what doll was the pretty doll and what doll was the ugly doll, between a white doll and a black dolls. The majority of the black children picked the black doll as the bad and ugly doll. It’s serious.
Hence, the TRUTH is that we are just a good, we are just as beautiful, we are just as hard working, and we are just as responsible as any other group of humans…..if we are treated like everyone else. What black people get, however, is constant bombardment of the opposite belief…implicitly and subliminally from society. That perpetuates black’s negative view of blacks, which many blacks have. Once the low esteem is removed from POSITIVE REINFORCMENT OF THE TRUTH ABOUT OUR CONDITION AND THE WHYS, we will reach the sky.
okay, i think i see what you're saying...
although, i think that the "positive reinforcement of the truth about the blacks condition and the why's" is going to have to start at home, by parents and family members. asking the world to affirm this truth is one thing, but relying on them is another.
and i'm glad you brought up self esteem, b/c that's one trait that when it's low causes a person to do crazy things...especially if it's low enough for that person to believe there's nothing to lose.
i have a question for you now...in your eyes, how do you rate the black community in affirming this truth?
I agree and to be honest, while it may be considered living in the past, you just can’t get away from what your family has instilled in you! For instance, during slavery Blacks could not buy property. After the abolition of slavery, here comes the Jim Crow laws that lasted through the 1960’s which SEVERELY impacted a Black’s ability to buy property, earn a living that could result in wealth, etc. So, when one can’t buy property to prove they’ve “made it” what else is there to “show” the world that you’re a success? Flashy cars, flashy clothes, flashy jewelry, etc. By the time Blacks were able to buy property, I’d argue that some had reached a point where that level of achievement was no longer important….it had lost its relevancy in their lives; it was relegated to something that “white people did”.
For those that harp on the “living in the past” stance, I really wish there could be a true understanding of what it means to have those values instilled in you as children. It brings to mind racists…were they born racist? How did they become that way? Who instilled and fostered this mindset? Same thing with Blacks who are uninterested in financial achievement….were they born lazy? How did they become that way? Who instilled this mindset?
If I were to trace it I think of it this way:
A slave is born
Her child is born and learns all about oppression/slavery from her mother
Slavery is abolished, but that young child still knows the things she was told about slavery/oppression. She has a child and teaches her child about the history of oppression for Blacks. That child has a child, and so on…..
So yes, the experience of oppression has become watered down through the generations, but even as recent as the 1960’s Blacks dealt with extreme racism. The effects of this aren’t going to disappear in a mere 50 years. Indeed, many people who suffered under Jim Crow laws are alive today and are telling their great-great grandchildren about the struggles they faced…once again introducing the concept of oppression.
All that is true….and more. The question is this, has the child born from parents who were once slaves impacted economically and geographically? In other words, did the first free born have the same life chances as a new born white child? Did the free born black child inherit the economic conditions of the slave born parents, as well as the location?
Life is a competition. It’s a race for survival and degrees thereof. Each generation represents a relay team like in track and field. A generations runs their leg of the race against whatever hurdles are placed in front of them. When they bring a child into the world, that child is handed the baton of life where the parents existed in the race at the time of birth. They don’t get a fresh start even with the other competitions. Any displacement, or lead, a child is born into becomes theirs at birth. So you are in the race of life and start off far behind because more hurdles was placed in front of the previous generation in your lane, it does not matter whether the current generation has the same number of hurdles as the other lanes, because they are already behind in the race. If they give equal effort to those in front of them, they will never catch up. They only way that they can catch up is to be superior or better than those who started in ahead of them.
Thank you for this perspective. It is truly a beautiful and touching post and does explain the historical perspective. But, at what point does one generation look at it as history...and take the responsibility of changing history?
I think that to succeed, underachieving blacks have to do what so many advocate: BREAK THE CYCLE!!!
Here’s the cycle of my life, thus far:
-I grew up in the ghetto; my Mother was on public assistance from when I was 7 through maybe 20-something. I lived in roach and rat infested public housing until I moved out at age 19.
-I was a teen mother. Had my first child at 15
-I dropped out of high school in the twelfth grade. No real reason; I was just lazy and didn’t feel like going. Although I was an honor roll student, I just didn’t have the motivation to actually get up and go to school.
Reading this, one would assume I went on to live in public housing, get a welfare check and live off the system. And believe me, that’s the story for many, but here’s where I BROKE THE CYCLE.
-I’ve been with the father of the child I had at 15 for about 17 years; we’ve been married for almost 10 of those.
- I went back and got my GED and immediately enrolled in college. I have my B.A. in English and plan to attend graduate school in January.
-My husband and I earn a comfortable standard of living and are able to show my children a way of living that does not include crime-infested neighborhoods, drug wars and sub-substandard living conditions.
As a result:
-My almost 15 year old daughter is an honor roll student. She’s in an academically-gifted program at her school and wants to become a doctor. Though I earned my bachelor’s degree later in life, in some ways I’m glad because my children have been able to see me achieve this; I hope that I’ve instilled in them the importance of education and the realization that it doesn’t end in high school. So far, it seems to be working.
So, I believe that I’ve successfully broken the cycle and it’s only because I WANTED a change…I wanted something different for myself…I wanted to be a success. Like anyone who has been negatively influenced by their upbringing, there needs to be a decision to break the cycle…it can’t come from outside influences, it won’t come to be no matter how many grants, scholarships, etc are thrown their way…it has to be a true inner commitment to want something better out of life. Sadly, for many, the effort seems too monumental to achieve.
I don't have a problem with anything that you said. What does differ is the treatment of the races in this nation and that different treatment IS the cause of the socioeconomic gaps in this country. Its not a difference in humanity, its a difference in human experiences.
I differ slightly from you on this. I think there is a difference in treatment and I do think that in some areas, there is less opportunity. I think that has obviously had an influence. I also think that the influence of that is moderated by the people in the environment and how they push them or not.
although, i think that the "positive reinforcement of the truth about the blacks condition and the why's" is going to have to start at home, by parents and family members. asking the world to affirm this truth is one thing, but relying on them is another.
and i'm glad you brought up self esteem, b/c that's one trait that when it's low causes a person to do crazy things...especially if it's low enough for that person to believe there's nothing to lose.
i have a question for you now...in your eyes, how do you rate the black community in affirming this truth?
I rate it far below normal. That is why we continue to kill each other daily and why we often disrespect our women and why we tend not to patronize black owned businesses.
I'd like to ask some of the black posters a question of reflection. Do you think that black people in general are hesitant to interact with whites for fear that whites won't like them and thereby cause them emotional pain?
I noticed when I was a returning student that when I, as the old white mother of instigation that I am, would plop myself down at a table of black students they'd immediately all leave, whereas the reception wasn't as cool with the younger white kids some of whom stayed to talk to me.
I rate it far below normal. That is why we continue to kill each other daily and why we often disrespect our women and why we tend not to patronize black owned businesses.
what do you believe the one thing is that would most help change this rating??
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