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Um, well, the income has to do with how ridiculous it is to fine someone one days pay for an oil spill that will still be with us 20 YEARS from now.
Again, do they adjust a limousine drivers fine for speeding based upon the amount of income they receive that day? How about if they happen to kill someone in an auto accident, an action that will be with the family much longer than 20 years?
A) how much the clean up will be
AND
B) an amount that will be a deterrent to further crimes.
Lets use your little automobile driver scenario:
Do you think a trucker making TEN BILLION every two days is going to slow down if a speeding ticket is only ten dollars?
Of course not.
Do you think BP will continue unsafe practices if we fine them ONE DAY's pay?
Of course not.
It'll just be the price of doing business in the Gulf.
Deterrent.
That's the part you're missing I think.
Also,
I wish someone would comment of the idea that if a company is too small to pay the fine should they create a disaster...then they shouldn't be in the dangerous business of deep sea oil drilling to begin with.
A) how much the clean up will be
AND
B) an amount that will be a deterrent to further crimes.
So far your doing ok..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker
Lets use your little automobile driver scenario:
Do you think a trucker making TEN BILLION every two days is going to slow down if a speeding ticket is only ten dollars?
Of course not.
But are fines linked to ones income? As you answered "Of course not"..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker
Do you think BP will continue unsafe practices if we fine them ONE DAY's pay?
Of course not.
Then tell me why there isnt more oil spills? Hell, according to your math, there should be one a week somewhere in the world because the fines are so little!
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker
It'll just be the price of doing business in the Gulf.
Deterrent.
That's the part you're missing I think.
Nope, not missing it at all... I'd say the BILLIONS it costs to cleanup is a very huge deterrent, along with the hundreds of millions in lost revenues, legal troubles, PR issues, and numerous uncountable costs which you somehow believe had no fees associated with them..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker
Also,
I wish someone would comment of the idea that if a company is too small to pay the fine should they create a disaster...then they shouldn't be in the dangerous business of deep sea oil drilling to begin with.
Anyone?
Or am I wrong here as well?
I dont believe anyone stated that companies too small to pay a fine should be in the business. That is why they have insurance policies to pay for damages in the event they cause them..
The Repubs argument that they do not know where the limit should be, simple answer, have NO limit to the Liability.
I totally agree, there should be absolutely no limit to the liability. It is stupid to create some artificial limit. They should be required to pay whatever the courts find them liable for. It should not be the job of Congress to set the price in which any company should be required to pay. Otherwise why should the courts even set get to set a fine, since Congress is effectively putting themselves in control of fines. Isn't that an abridgement to our system of checks and balances?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Again, do they adjust a limousine drivers fine for speeding based upon the amount of income they receive that day? How about if they happen to kill someone in an auto accident, an action that will be with the family much longer than 20 years?
Courts can set many things based on your income and other factors. They tend to set bail very high on wealthy individuals, and much lower for the poor. As for damages, damages can be many things. In a car accident, you have actual damages which is the cost of repairing the other vehicle, doctors bills, income loss from not being able to work. Then you also have other artificial damages, such as pain and suffering, mental anguish, etc.
In regards to the oil spill, I do believe that it should cost more to BP than just the actual damages, such as the income loss to fisherman. Individuals will have lost a great deal from not being able to enjoy the beach as they might have before. They will never clean every bit of oil up, there will still be oil in the sand, under rocks, and other areas 20 years from now(just like in the Exxon Valdez spill). I think the liability for BP should be much higher than just the actual damages, and this fund should be handed over to the states affected by the spill, for the benefit of the people of the states whose lives have been affected.
I dont believe anyone stated that companies too small to pay a fine should be in the business. That is why they have insurance policies to pay for damages in the event they cause them..
Small businesses being run out of the playing field is one of the main excuses for not lifting the cap.
You didn't read my link from the original post did you?
"If you have it too high you are going to be singling out BP and the other four largest majors and the nationalized companies, such as China and Venezuela, and shutting out the independent producers," (Sen. James Inhofe) said.
Looks like some of the usual suspects are still confused about what the $75 Million cap refers to.
1. there are (unlimited) clean up costs BP must cover. Currently BP has paid about $900 Million in clean up costs.
2. there is currently a $75 Million cap on liability claims. The $75 Million is not a fine. The government does not get this money. These are claims made by 3rd parties for potential damages as a direct impact of the spill. BP has up to now paid $48 Million to date and received 37000 claims. BP has said it will voluntarily go beyond the $75 Million figure if required. Again, if it tried to cause a stink at this point that would be political suicide. This cap of $75 Million liability cap for third parties is what the government is discussing about whether it needs to be raised or not.
3. There may (and most likely will be) significant additional federal and state fines once the government investigation is complete. These amount of these fines will not be determined until the full extent of the spill is known, but could easily go into the Billions of dollars.
So, why did the Republicans TWICE block the liability bill?
Oh, because they don't want to pay the actual PEOPLE of AMERICA who are suffering.
Okay, well then that's fine.
I'm sure you guys, uh, I mean the CEOs of British Petroleum are honorable people who will surely do the right thing...right?
Oh, wait, we're STILL WAITING FOR THEM TO CLEAN UP THE EXXON VALDEZ SPILL 20 YEARS LATER!!!
People have DIED waiting for their checks to come in from BP!
Certainly the cap should be lifted. There are thousands of claims now, and BP has not indicated they will not make good on the legitimate claims, if fact the opposite is true. I do think there needs to be a method of calculating a reasonable value to the claims. BP profited, still does, a great deal from Gulf drilling, but they are not the only ones. So have the people of the region. Decades of jobs, supporting businesses and ancillary businesses. I believe there could be some formula to get relatively close to equitable compensation for those damaged. Most of the thousands of claims could be quickly cleared, those in contention could have appeals process or even adjudication in Court. I just don't see how it would all that complicated to do. But, to have some arbitrary limits on total compensation, does not make sense. The arguments by the GOP, don't hold water.
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