A thread for the non gloom and doomers (unemployment rate, salaries, generations)
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Sure I did and I read your post. Leadership and accomplishments ?
Please name 1 positive accomplishment ?
I listed FACTS of just a FEW of his many failures in 18 months!
Take a good look at auto sales just after C4C ended...They went backwards! You need to let the markets correct themselves instead of throwing more bad money after them!
See post #2 and follow the link. I know you want but maybe you'll know on the inside why you want.
Sure I did and I read your post. Leadership and accomplishments ?
Please name 1 positive accomplishment ?
I listed FACTS of just a FEW of his many failures in 18 months!
Take a good look at auto sales just after C4C ended...They went backwards! You need to let the markets correct themselves instead of throwing more bad money after them!
Yeah... so you don't really understand how markets or stimulus work. You seem to think that stimulus is a magic pill to launch sales into future and take over the role of the market. It's not.
C4C provided a critical boost to the auto industry at the depth of the economic collapse when no one was buying cars. Without it, many more dealerships would have shut down and production jobs would have been lost. Those people who have gone on unemployment for the past year and a half or so and milked off the public teet. Instead, jobs were retained and capital moved through the economy, trickling down to coffee shops, gas stations, grocery stores, etc..., retaining even more jobs.
The fact that auto sales went down temporarily after a major stimulus to the industry isn't unexpected. Home sales shot up artificially before the end-of-April tax credit deadline as well, but that program got a lot of capital moving through the economy at a time when people were desperate for housing sales.
Ideally, the market recovers right on the heals of such programs so it's a seamless transition. This is a slow recovery because the market failure was so systemic, so we haven't had that luxury. Nevertheless, since the auto industry was able to weather the worst of the storm they are now seeing double-digit increases in sales and American companies are ranking as highest in quality. Home sales are increasing all over the country, too.
So, when you look at the bigger picture and understand what they were meant to do, you will see that these were very successful programs.
Yeah... so you don't really understand how markets or stimulus work. You seem to think that stimulus is a magic pill to launch sales into future and take over the role of the market. It's not.
C4C provided a critical boost to the auto industry at the depth of the economic collapse when no one was buying cars. Without it, many more dealerships would have shut down and production jobs would have been lost. Those people who have gone on unemployment for the past year and a half or so and milked off the public teet. Instead, jobs were retained and capital moved through the economy, trickling down to coffee shops, gas stations, grocery stores, etc..., retaining even more jobs.
The fact that auto sales went down temporarily after a major stimulus to the industry isn't unexpected. Home sales shot up artificially before the end-of-April tax credit deadline as well, but that program got a lot of capital moving through the economy at a time when people were desperate for housing sales.
Ideally, the market recovers right on the heals of such programs so it's a seamless transition. This is a slow recovery because the market failure was so systemic, so we haven't had that luxury. Nevertheless, since the auto industry was able to weather the worst of the storm they are now seeing double-digit increases in sales and American companies are ranking as highest in quality. Home sales are increasing all over the country, too.
So, when you look at the bigger picture and understand what they were meant to do, you will see that these were very successful programs.
Stimulus programs are no more than a "Sugar" high. It'll give you a quick pick me up but eventually you'll fall flat down again.I understand how markets and economics work perfectly. If you're in debt do you go out and SPEND MORE money or would you try and maybe create some more income? Obama's doing NOTHING for job creation but he's sure doing a good job at creating MORE debt! You say home sales are increasing across the county? Take note to when the article was written,May 25th,about 1 month AFTER the tax credits expired. Here's just the first few paragraphs:
Falling home prices stir fears of new bottom
By J.W. ELPHINSTONE, AP Real Estate Writer – Tue May 25, 4:44 pm ET
NEW YORK – The housing slump isn't over.
Tax credits and historically low mortgage rates have failed to lift home prices so far this year. Prices fell 0.5 percent in March from February, according to the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller 20-city index released Tuesday.
That marks six straight months of declines — a sign that the housing market is going in reverse.
"It looks a little like a double-dip already," economist Robert Shiller said in an interview. "There is a very real possibility of some more decline."
Prices in 13 of the 20 cities tracked by the index fell. Only six metro areas recorded price gains. One, Boston, came in flat.
On Monday, the National Association of Realtors said sales of previously occupied homes rose 7.6 percent in April. But the sales were aided by the government incentives that have now expired. Economists don't expect the improvements to last.
Falling home prices stir fears of new bottom - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100525/ap_on_bi_ge/us_home_prices;_ylt=ArQw61_iWIMlPTViFg43hSuyBhIF;_ ylu=X3oDMTJmczFxaGc3BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTI1L3VzX2 hvbWVfcHJpY2VzBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDOARzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0 b3J5BHNsawNmYWxsaW5naG9tZXA- - broken link)
Stimulus programs are no more than a "Sugar" high. It'll give you a quick pick me up but eventually you'll fall flat down again.I understand how markets and economics work perfectly. If you're in debt do you go out and SPEND MORE money or would you try and maybe create some more income? Obama's doing NOTHING for job creation but he's sure doing a good job at creating MORE debt! You say home sales are increasing across the county? Take note to when the article was written,May 25th,about 1 month AFTER the tax credits expired. Here's just the first few paragraphs:
Falling home prices stir fears of new bottom
By J.W. ELPHINSTONE, AP Real Estate Writer – Tue May 25, 4:44 pm ET
NEW YORK – The housing slump isn't over.
Tax credits and historically low mortgage rates have failed to lift home prices so far this year. Prices fell 0.5 percent in March from February, according to the Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller 20-city index released Tuesday.
That marks six straight months of declines — a sign that the housing market is going in reverse.
"It looks a little like a double-dip already," economist Robert Shiller said in an interview. "There is a very real possibility of some more decline."
Prices in 13 of the 20 cities tracked by the index fell. Only six metro areas recorded price gains. One, Boston, came in flat.
On Monday, the National Association of Realtors said sales of previously occupied homes rose 7.6 percent in April. But the sales were aided by the government incentives that have now expired. Economists don't expect the improvements to last.
Falling home prices stir fears of new bottom - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100525/ap_on_bi_ge/us_home_prices;_ylt=ArQw61_iWIMlPTViFg43hSuyBhIF;_ ylu=X3oDMTJmczFxaGc3BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTI1L3VzX2 hvbWVfcHJpY2VzBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDOARzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0 b3J5BHNsawNmYWxsaW5naG9tZXA- - broken link)
The whole point of stimulus is to create that sugar high until the markets can provide sustained sustenance. So, we are agreed that the stimulus and related programs did precisely what they were intended to do and were, therefore, successful.
One cannot draw parallels between the microeconomics of an individual going into debt and the macroeconomics of the largest economy in the world going into debt. It's just not the same.
And, for the record, home sales are shooting up all over the country. Prices don't increase until after demand increases. Seems like the only problem you have with the economy is impatience. It takes time to dig out of the catastrophe inherited, but it's happening. Just need to make sure the global markets don't pull us into a double dip.
The whole point of stimulus is to create that sugar high until the markets can provide sustained sustenance. So, we are agreed that the stimulus and related programs did precisely what they were intended to do and were, therefore, successful.
I disagree. While it did provide that high, it was not sustained.
As soon as the stimulus dried up..that segment fell.
State governents all across the country have no more stimulus to prop their budgets and need more.
Industry (RE for example) did not continue the momentum and are now asking for more extensions of tax subsidized credits.
Like an addict, they enjoyed the high but the high has worn off and they want more.
Since they are not sustainable without more stimulus, I would say it was not successful. It was more of a bandaid, a temporary one at that.
Last edited by HappyTexan; 06-20-2010 at 12:37 PM..
I disagree. While it did provide that high, it was not sustained.
As soon as the stimulus dried up..that segment fell.
State governents all across the country have no more stimulus to prop their budgets and need more.
Industry (RE for example) did not continue the momentum and are now asking for more extensions of tax subsidized credits.
Like an addict, they enjoyed the high but the high has worn off and they want more.
Quote:
Since they are not sustainable without more stimulus, I would say it was not suscessful. It was more of a bandaid, a temporary one at that.
It was a FIX......similar to the ones any hardcore crackhead, gambling junkie or shopaholic.....would be just fine with....until they NEED their NEXT fix.......and tomorrow never comes soon enough, especially to BIG spenders...of OTHER people's money!
Right, Nasty Pelosi? Cut 'em all OFF and get them the HELP they obviously NEED more than anything.....a one-way ticket OUT of the US, perhaps?
The whole point of stimulus is to create that sugar high until the markets can provide sustained sustenance. So, we are agreed that the stimulus and related programs did precisely what they were intended to do and were, therefore, successful.
One cannot draw parallels between the microeconomics of an individual going into debt and the macroeconomics of the largest economy in the world going into debt. It's just not the same.
And, for the record, home sales are shooting up all over the country. Prices don't increase until after demand increases. Seems like the only problem you have with the economy is impatience. It takes time to dig out of the catastrophe inherited, but it's happening. Just need to make sure the global markets don't pull us into a double dip.
As such a serious supporter of stimulus maybe you can tell me when the remaining third or more will be spent and on what. I do wonder if it will happen very soon and if it will be going to places where it can "buy" votes for this fall. I have been thinking that for sometime and it is looking more and more like I was right.
Do you not know how much money they gave to states to build roads, etc with that was not spent until very recently? I just don't see how you stimulate a market by holding money back till a strategic time.
No, we're just not going to feel as rich as we used to.
Not going to feel as rich or not going to BE as rich?
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Here's just the first few paragraphs:
