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Are we debating which is better? Can't anyone see they are both despicable. Glenn Beck had a whole show on this. Beck is more libertarian than anything.
Silly to debate which one you want to be taken over by. A slave is a slave no matter the regime.
Where is the personal attack? I attacked your post. I attacked the essay. No where did I attack you.
I didn't see ANYTHING you said of the essay. You either attacked the OP, or the author of the essay, not the content itself.
Here are a few facts:
1- Hitler hated liberalism, progressivism and was pro-life.
2- Hitler hated communists, homosexuals, and of course, Jews.
3- Hitler operated on a platform promoting Christianity.
4- Hitler dismantled trade unions and imprisoned the leaders.
5- Racial, ethnic, linguistic and cultural purity was a platform he relied upon.
6- Ultra nationalism, "German people" and "God" were part of virtually every line he spoke.
And I wrote these without having looked at the essay that I will now. In the mean time, would you care to tell me which of the above is untrue, and which of them do you associate with liberals?
I don't where these "facts" were obtained but the source was bad.
Here are a few facts:
1- Hitler hated liberalism, progressivism and was pro-life.
False - the Nazis were populist revolutionaries - what they hated was German society as it existed at the time.
Abortion on demand was Nazi policy - it facilitated eugenics.
2- Hitler hated communists, homosexuals, and of course, Jews. True but the communist were hated as rivals - Hilter was no capitalist not at all.
3- Hitler operated on a platform promoting Christianity. False - Dietrich Bonheoffer head of the Lutheran was executed on Himmler's orders and the Catholic church was bribed and later blackmailed into silence. The SS had their own occult religion. In general Christianity and Judeo-Christian ethics were derided esp by the Hitler Youth movement.
4- Hitler dismantled trade unions and imprisoned the leaders. True – and Communists did not allow them either.
5- Racial, ethnic, linguistic and cultural purity was a platform he relied upon. True - and Communists use "dictatorship of the proletariat" as an excuse instead.
6- Ultra nationalism, "German people" and "God" were part of virtually every line he spoke. True but his concept of God had no connection to traditional Christian belief - None.
This type of historical revisionism needs to be confronted. And attempts at villianising American social and religious conservatism by eqiuivicating it with German national socialism is nonsense and vile.
And the the same time implying that Communism was something "other" (read good) - is even worse.
Shame Shame Shame!!!
During th 20th century Communists were responsible for millions upon millions of deaths and that is one fact presented here accurately.
Fact - National socialism and scientific socialism (Communism) are kissing cousins.
Baseless argument. It is cute to try and call them one and the same, when they couldn't be further apart. Why not go ahead and explain how the two are identical approach? Would you point at the common philosophies between the two?
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Charles_
Here are a few facts:
1- Hitler hated liberalism, progressivism and was pro-life.
False - the Nazis were populist revolutionaries - what they hated was German society as it existed at the time.
Abortion on demand was Nazi policy - it facilitated eugenics.
Eugenics applied only as a part of their larger plan... racial cleansing (a cuter term was: racial hygiene). In general, laws were against abortion.
Quote:
2- Hitler hated communists, homosexuals, and of course, Jews. True but the communist were hated as rivals - Hilter was no capitalist not at all.
Hitler was an authoritarian, who achieved his goals by not kissing the communists or being one, as you attempted to present as a fact earlier, but by villifying them. Capitalism was very much a part of his plan, as long as he could control everything (don't confuse capitalism with free market, they are not one and the same).
Since you left homosexuals out, I'm assuming you agree with me on that one.
Quote:
3- Hitler operated on a platform promoting Christianity. False - Dietrich Bonheoffer head of the Lutheran was executed on Himmler's orders and the Catholic church was bribed and later blackmailed into silence. The SS had their own occult religion. In general Christianity and Judeo-Christian ethics were derided esp by the Hitler Youth movement.
SS ultimately wanted its own version of Christianity that suppressed every other, much less all other religions that could dare to exist. It is understandable that any opposition would be oppressed.
To deny Hitler's Christianity based platform is no different than denying holocaust. God and Christianity were a common word in his propaganda. There is nothing liberal about Gott Mitt Uns. Nothing along these lines is.
Quote:
4- Hitler dismantled trade unions and imprisoned the leaders. True – and Communists do not allow them either.
Trade unions are part and parcel of communism. Where did you get this idea that communists do not allow them? Communism and trade unions very existed even in Germany. You should know.
Quote:
5- Racial, ethnic, linguistic and cultural purity was a platform he relied upon. True - and Communists use "dictatorship of the proletariat" as en excuse instead.
You, again, fail to differentiate between authoritarianism and political/economic philosophies used to achieve it.
Quote:
6- Ultra nationalism, "German people" and "God" were part of virtually every line he spoke. True but his concept of God had no connection to traditional Christian belief - None.
And so I think of most Christians, and virtually all evangelicals. The fact that he believed that his was the Christian way settles this aspect of debate. Nothing liberal about this either. I see a lot of parallel between him and the right wing politics played here in America.
Quote:
This type of historical revisionism needs to be confronted...
And thank you for giving me the chance to do just that.
The "Socialist" part of the name "National Socialist German Workers' Party" had to do with the Nazi party originally being a coalition of nationalists and socialists. There was a socialist wing of the Nazi Party, led by the Strasser brothers, who believed in a sort of Marxism with an explicit racial element added in. (They certainly were not supportive of Germany's actual Socialist Party, the SPD, which they referred to as a "Jewish party", nor the communist KPD). Once Hitler had support from Germany's industrialists and upper classes, he no longer had any use for them. Even before he came to power they had already split and formed their own party, the "Black Front". After Hitler came to power, the Strasserites were either killed, imprisoned, or driven into exile, and then faded into history (although Allied intelligence during WW2 briefly thought they could be of use in divulging information about Nazi Germany, this seemed to come to nothing.)
Thank you Charles for setting him straight. As for Hitler hating gays... he had an army officer and Nazi leader for years who was openly gay.
Some believe that Hitler himself indulged. But then, like the homophobes we've come to mock, often in disgust, he too would fit right there with the rest of 'em right wing hypocrites.
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