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I'm tired of these Obama is Muslim rumors! If he was Muslim, so what! Seriously, who cares!??!
Christians hating Muslims are just as bad as Muslims hating Christians.
It's time EVERYONE stops hating people for being different.
If you don't care if he is a Muslim, that you don't understand what is happening in the world today.
Please educate yourself, being careful and aware of what's happening in not being hateful.
I don't hate Muslims, I fear the Islamists that are coming here to use the system, get control of it and believe that they need to create a Muslim UMAH.
I recommend reading Wafa Sultan book "A God that Hate"
see this article about her. Wafa Sultan - TIME
Every Religion has it's nut-jobs, but most religions are kicking them outside, and look at them as nut-jobs not as martyrs.
Most religions don't name streets after their suicide bombers. Islam does!
Can you name me a church that named something after Timothy McVeigh?
The fact remains that when we look at this President we have more questions than answers.
Amazing attempt at deflection!
But typical; when some people get schooled, they change the premise.
That's all you have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by conc1
I am reading any reliable sources, from the left and from the right, I also have been meeting Muslims and ex Muslims, and they are extremely concern about Obama.
The fact the A brave woman like Nonie Darwish, who established ArabsForIsrael.com after 9/11, can only get published in online outlets such as Front Page and not the LA times, has more to say about the LA Times than about what she has to say, and whether it's true or not.
Then you obviously have links or can find them.
Please provide as has been requested. That would settle the question, wouldn't it?
If not, all we have is your link to FrontPage.
I don't know if Barack Hussain Obama is a muslim or not. He is however, the worst president in recent history, is taking our country to a place we may never be able to recover from and is deceiving millions of people. That is enough for me.
I don't know if Barack Hussain Obama is a muslim or not. He is however, the worst president in recent history, is taking our country to a place we may never be able to recover from and is deceiving millions of people. That is enough for me.
I would say that Obama is probably not a very good Muslim. He has said and done some things that Muslims just don't agree with, out of seeming ignorance, when he thought he was pandering to them. I will post some reasons for this in a thread of its own so as not to take away from the object of this one.
I hadn't thought about this before but if Obama was raised as a muslim and states now that he's a christian doesn't that fall under the islam law that says he's an apostate with the prescribed punishment? I wonder how they feel about this, or is that only a ruling that radical muslims follow?
I think a lot of Muslim thought depends on the part of the Koran he uses most. Mohammed was fighting continually during the first part of the book so it is much less violent sounding that the last part when he had established his power over to many people. It is the last half, or so, in which you read about killing infidels and the like, not the first part. When he gained control of the areas around Mecca and Medina he got tougher talking.
I am reading any reliable sources, from the left and from the right, I also have been meeting Muslims and ex Muslims, and they are extremely concern about Obama.
The fact the A brave woman like Nonie Darwish, who established ArabsForIsrael.com after 9/11, can only get published in online outlets such as Front Page and not the LA times, has more to say about the LA Times than about what she has to say, and whether it's true or not.
Last night I did some research that I only do about twice a year at CPUSA's website and found some very interesting things to read. The part I liked most was the part aimed at blacks showing all the well known blacks that have joined their group. Do you know who W. E. B. du Bois was?
I think a lot of Muslim thought depends on the part of the Koran he uses most. Mohammed was fighting continually during the first part of the book so it is much less violent sounding that the last part when he had established his power over to many people. It is the last half, or so, in which you read about killing infidels and the like, not the first part. When he gained control of the areas around Mecca and Medina he got tougher talking.
I have no affection for Islam. In fact, I think the religion is a disaster to humanity. But I gotta tell you, it's clear from that "account" that you have never read the Qur'an. It's not in chronological order, so it does not break down in the way you describe here.
Think of it this way. Mohammed made his Hegira in 622 ad which would be over 600 years after Christ died. To me that makes what they say about everybody being born Muslim a figment of their imagination.
And that would make them different from any other religion... how exactly?
If all children are born Muslims that who are the infidels? Children in Islam are the property of the father. I guess You are referring to some P.C. version of the Koran. Look up Wafa Sultan's book "A God who hates", a good read and actually explain a bit about the way Muslim views the infidels.
1) There is no "PC version" of the Qur'an. Even the most soft pedaled translations cannot bowdlerize the Qur'an of its atavism and violent nature.
2. Islam asserts that it is the first and original religion, imbued directly into Adam by Allah Himself upon creation. All the "Prophets" of the Abrahamic faiths were Muslims (including Adam, Noah, Moses, David, John the Baptist, Jesus, etc.) and that their teachings were corrupted by the heretical groups that became Jews and Christians. Islam is the native state into which all humans are born, and infidel parents create new generations of infidels by corrupting them with unbelief.
3. The idea that children are the property of the father is not an "Islamic" belief. It has been a belief of cultures across all of history, to include pagan and Christian cultures as well.
4. I do not depend upon Wafa Sultan for my view of Islam. I have studied it first hand. My conclusions are not very different from his... just a little more accurate since they were derived fairly rather than through prejudice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conc1
The fact that the article is written by someone who does not like Obama, does not mean he is lying. The New York Times did not like Bush, did they print lies, they tilted and put big headline bushing him, but did not lie?
Any exercise in critical thinking must include an assessment of the source. The fact that it is written by somebody who does not like Obama may not mean that he is lying, but the fact that he is an already established liar regarding Obama should cause any reasonable person to hold his assertions at arm's length before sniffing. But the further fact that there is also no evidence that what he wrote is true is the primary reason to dismiss the claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conc1
No quotation on what Obama said, or what the Egyptian said? The only time you would actually put quotation mark is when you are actually writing it word by word.
Exactly. And we have no quotations here at all. They are at best fifth person paraphrases, at worst fabrications.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conc1
So let's agree that it is a rummer in the Muslim world that our President is a Muslim or worse a "murtadd". Does this bother you?
To agree would be to credit the rumor. So no, I cannot agree. It is abundantly clear that the President is not a Muslim, and what you call a rumor I call a deliberate smear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by conc1
The fact remains that when we look at this President we have more questions than answers.
Nonsense.
With this President we have a very loud group of people who ask questions and then ignore the answers once given.
1) There is no "PC version" of the Qur'an. Even the most soft pedaled translations cannot bowdlerize the Qur'an of its atavism and violent nature.
Did you know that translating the Quran is not permitted by Islamic law, they translate the spirit not the actual verses.
2. Islam asserts that it is the first and original religion, imbued directly into Adam by Allah Himself upon creation. All the "Prophets" of the Abrahamic faiths were Muslims (including Adam, Noah, Moses, David, John the Baptist, Jesus, etc.) and that their teachings were corrupted by the heretical groups that became Jews and Christians. Islam is the native state into which all humans are born, and infidel parents create new generations of infidels by corrupting them with unbelief.
Quite frankly I don't care if they consider themselves the first or the last religion, and Muhammad the last profit (which they do) I look at all the killings Islamists do in the name of Islam. And I don't see the majority marching with signs "Not In Our Name". The signs they carry are more like "Freedom Go to Hell" I hope the bbc is enough of lefty source for you guys.
3. The idea that children are the property of the father is not an "Islamic" belief. It has been a belief of cultures across all of history, to include pagan and Christian cultures as well.
So when a mother in America / any other non Muslim country come with a Power of Attorney from the father of her children, to get a passport she is send back to get a male relative of the father to come and sign instead of her? Sound convoluted - but that is exactly what happens in the Muslim countries TODAY. The mother does not count.
4. I do not depend upon Wafa Sultan for my view of Islam. I have studied it first hand. My conclusions are not very different from his... just a little more accurate since they were derived fairly rather than through prejudice.
Wafa Sultan is a woman not a man, she is a Syrian Ex Muslim, who speak read and write Arabic, learned the Quran in his original language Arabic. I think she is a bit more qualified than both me and you to talk about Islam and the Qoran.
Here is a link to her story and message.
Any exercise in critical thinking must include an assessment of the source. The fact that it is written by somebody who does not like Obama may not mean that he is lying, but the fact that he is an already established liar regarding Obama should cause any reasonable person to hold his assertions at arm's length before sniffing. But the further fact that there is also no evidence that what he wrote is true is the primary reason to dismiss the claim.
How exactly did you asses that he is "an established liar". Let's see, does not like Obama- therefore a liar. Really does not like Obama= an established liar.
Exactly. And we have no quotations here at all. They are at best fifth person paraphrases, at worst fabrications.
I am still looking for an actual translation from the TV program The Round Table on Egyptian TV, but don't forget hat we are dealing with a totalitarian regime in Egypt, not a free society.
I have a feeling though that with you even if you hear a recording of Obama saying it himself you want believe it.
To agree would be to credit the rumor. So no, I cannot agree. It is abundantly clear that the President is not a Muslim, and what you call a rumor I call a deliberate smear.
I did not ask you to agree to the rummer, I asked you to understand that the Muslim world do look at him as a Muslim.
Nonsense.
With this President we have a very loud group of people who ask questions and then ignore the answers once given.
I am sorry to tell you that you have your head very deep in the sand, if you don't even concern yourself with he fact that the public did not see any document, that we have seen before for every other candidate for president.
We don't have any school papers, university papers, medical files- Nothing.
Whether it's not been made available because Obama has something to hide, or want to have conspiracies around him. It is still not OK, that the media and people like you give him a pass on it.
We have all seen all the documents requested about MCcain, Bush, Kerry, Al Gore- but nothing about Obama's documents. He is spending so much money defending his "right" to keep these documents away from the public eye that any reasonable person have to ask himself -WHY?
Let me ask you, if his name was Bush and he had an R after his name would you defending the lack of documents?
Last edited by conc1; 06-26-2010 at 01:43 PM..
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