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Old 06-29-2010, 06:08 AM
 
Location: texas
3,135 posts, read 3,779,241 times
Reputation: 1814

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The following is an opinion piece written by a friend of mine who is very active on the Libertarian front......


CHICAGO GUN CASE A BITTERSWEET VICTORY FOR LIBERTY--BUT JUSTICE THOMAS' FINEST HOUR--For the fatalistic libertarian, we are happy when there is either an incremental increase in liberty or at least not a loss. As Thomas Jefferson said, " the natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”

In the Supreme Court today there was a net loss of liberty, despite the holding in McDonald v. City of Chicago(gun case)— ruling that the Second Amendment does apply to the states, and their political subdivisions. http://bit.ly/ck4Lfc And the First Amendment right of free association and expression took a beating in Christian Legal Society v. Martinez http://bit.ly/9A6gwk

The ruling in McDonald was not unexpected, and it was not unexpected that the Supreme Court would adopt the reasoning of the National Rifle Association, rather than than of the plaintiff The Court Restores a Fundamental Right | Cato @ Liberty

Of course it could have been worse. The Supreme Court could have adopted the reasoning of the “state's rights” crowd Login | Facebook and various liberals, such as the Massachusetts Supreme Court Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Rules 2nd Amendment Does Not Apply to States and Justice Sotomayor Sotomayor Will Eviscerate Second Amendment - Sonia Sotomayor Nomination - Zimbio that the Second Amendment does not apply to the states.

But, it could have been a whole lot better. Those of us who treasure liberty, such as Justice Clarence Thomas, had hoped the court would restore the “privileges and immunities” clause to its original meaning. That would have been a major victory for liberty.

The privileges and immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment provides:

“ No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ”

Finally, Jefferson's assertion in the first line of the Declaration of Independence was made real—no government (state, federal or local) could abridge a citizen's inalienable rights—no matter who they were, what they were, and where they lived.

But alas the country was not ready for unfettered liberty— at least the ruling elite. In 1873 the Supreme Court essentially rendered the immunities and privileges clause meaningless in the Slaughterhouse Cases See Brian Doherty's article “Killing Slaughterhouse” Killing Slaughterhouse - Reason Magazine for a good explanation in simple,non-legalise language what this dispute is all about—because it is really about a lot more than guns:

As the plaintiff's attorney wrote in his brief:

“In 1868, the ‘privileges’ and ‘immunities’ of American citizenship were popularly understood to include a broad array of pre-existent natural rights believed secured by all free governments, as well as the personal rights memorialized in the Bill of Rights” Petitioner's Brief filed in McDonald v Chicago

The intent of the drafters of the Fourteenth Amendment was to not only insure personal rights, but economic rights. As Damon Root has said:

“The 14th Amendment was specifically designed and ratified to protect a sweepingly libertarian idea of self-ownership. That idea includes the right to acquire property, run a business, and buy and sell labor without unnecessary or improper interference by the government.” Restoring the Privileges or Immunities Clause - Reason Magazine

Both the left and the right fears this unleashing of unfettered fundamental rights. The left fears economic liberty. The right fears personal liberties —such things as same sex marriage.

So, to no surprise the only Justice who argued for restoration of the privileges and immunities clause was Justice Clarence Thomas—who wrote a separate partial concurrence in McDonald. http://bit.ly/ck4Lfc In showing again his libertarian compass, Justice Clarence cites libertarian stalwarts Frederick Douglass and Lysander Spooner in his concurrence.

This would have the perfect case to rid our country of the Slaughterhouse travesty.

Not only is it a dishonest legal sleight of hand to pretend that possession of firearms is a procedural due process right—the right of free slaves to be armed was one of the main reasons the immunities and privileges clause was inserted in the Fourteenth Amendment. See “Freedman, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the Right to Bear Arms, 1866-1876 “ by Stephen Hallbrook Amazon.com: Freedmen, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the Right to Bear Arms, 1866-1876 (9780275963316): Stephen P. Halbrook: Books


by B.C.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Ironic that the lady holds a Soviet made Mosin Nagant.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,856 posts, read 26,482,831 times
Reputation: 25748
I've always liked Oleg's work.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:25 AM
 
24,388 posts, read 23,044,056 times
Reputation: 14979
She'd be better off with a handgun.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:29 AM
 
Location: texas
3,135 posts, read 3,779,241 times
Reputation: 1814
Ok, ya'll are too funny this morning....this was supposed to be a SERIOUS Thread
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:30 AM
 
29,981 posts, read 42,917,108 times
Reputation: 12828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
She'd be better off with a handgun.
Apparently you know nothing about the Mosin Nagant and how to reach out and touch someone with it do you?
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,680,664 times
Reputation: 1962
The reality is no matter what government says arm yourself, legally or illegally either way if you need the gun jail time will be the least of your worries. A gun is for protection of crimes.
What if the government is the criminals.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" Jeffferson

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. Gandhi
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
20,054 posts, read 18,275,532 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyandJusticeforAll View Post
The reality is no matter what government says arm yourself, legally or illegally either way if you need the gun jail time will be the least of your worries. A gun is for protection of crimes.
What if the government is the criminals.


"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" Jeffferson

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. Gandhi
Which is why I love the old soviet styled weapons. Unlike an AR, you can bury these suckers in the event they're banned, should the day come (God forbid) when you need them to use against those in the government who would actually do you harm.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:02 PM
 
4,923 posts, read 11,185,071 times
Reputation: 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
Which is why I love the old soviet styled weapons. Unlike an AR, you can bury these suckers in the event they're banned, should the day come (God forbid) when you need them to use against those in the government who would actually do you harm.
Plus, the Mosin Nagant is multi-functional--also usable as a club, anchor, hammer, and firewood.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:50 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,285,342 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomcome1 View Post

The following is an opinion piece written by a friend of mine who is very active on the Libertarian front......


CHICAGO GUN CASE A BITTERSWEET VICTORY FOR LIBERTY--BUT JUSTICE THOMAS' FINEST HOUR--For the fatalistic libertarian, we are happy when there is either an incremental increase in liberty or at least not a loss. As Thomas Jefferson said, " the natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.”

In the Supreme Court today there was a net loss of liberty, despite the holding in McDonald v. City of Chicago(gun case)— ruling that the Second Amendment does apply to the states, and their political subdivisions. http://bit.ly/ck4Lfc And the First Amendment right of free association and expression took a beating in Christian Legal Society v. Martinez http://bit.ly/9A6gwk

The ruling in McDonald was not unexpected, and it was not unexpected that the Supreme Court would adopt the reasoning of the National Rifle Association, rather than than of the plaintiff The Court Restores a Fundamental Right | Cato @ Liberty

Of course it could have been worse. The Supreme Court could have adopted the reasoning of the “state's rights” crowd Login | Facebook and various liberals, such as the Massachusetts Supreme Court Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court Rules 2nd Amendment Does Not Apply to States and Justice Sotomayor Sotomayor Will Eviscerate Second Amendment - Sonia Sotomayor Nomination - Zimbio that the Second Amendment does not apply to the states.

But, it could have been a whole lot better. Those of us who treasure liberty, such as Justice Clarence Thomas, had hoped the court would restore the “privileges and immunities” clause to its original meaning. That would have been a major victory for liberty.

The privileges and immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment provides:

“ No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States ”

Finally, Jefferson's assertion in the first line of the Declaration of Independence was made real—no government (state, federal or local) could abridge a citizen's inalienable rights—no matter who they were, what they were, and where they lived.

But alas the country was not ready for unfettered liberty— at least the ruling elite. In 1873 the Supreme Court essentially rendered the immunities and privileges clause meaningless in the Slaughterhouse Cases See Brian Doherty's article “Killing Slaughterhouse” Killing Slaughterhouse - Reason Magazine for a good explanation in simple,non-legalise language what this dispute is all about—because it is really about a lot more than guns:

As the plaintiff's attorney wrote in his brief:

“In 1868, the ‘privileges’ and ‘immunities’ of American citizenship were popularly understood to include a broad array of pre-existent natural rights believed secured by all free governments, as well as the personal rights memorialized in the Bill of Rights” Petitioner's Brief filed in McDonald v Chicago

The intent of the drafters of the Fourteenth Amendment was to not only insure personal rights, but economic rights. As Damon Root has said:

“The 14th Amendment was specifically designed and ratified to protect a sweepingly libertarian idea of self-ownership. That idea includes the right to acquire property, run a business, and buy and sell labor without unnecessary or improper interference by the government.” Restoring the Privileges or Immunities Clause - Reason Magazine

Both the left and the right fears this unleashing of unfettered fundamental rights. The left fears economic liberty. The right fears personal liberties —such things as same sex marriage.

So, to no surprise the only Justice who argued for restoration of the privileges and immunities clause was Justice Clarence Thomas—who wrote a separate partial concurrence in McDonald. http://bit.ly/ck4Lfc In showing again his libertarian compass, Justice Clarence cites libertarian stalwarts Frederick Douglass and Lysander Spooner in his concurrence.

This would have the perfect case to rid our country of the Slaughterhouse travesty.

Not only is it a dishonest legal sleight of hand to pretend that possession of firearms is a procedural due process right—the right of free slaves to be armed was one of the main reasons the immunities and privileges clause was inserted in the Fourteenth Amendment. See “Freedman, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the Right to Bear Arms, 1866-1876 “ by Stephen Hallbrook Amazon.com: Freedmen, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the Right to Bear Arms, 1866-1876 (9780275963316): Stephen P. Halbrook: Books


by B.C.
Sir you are clearly a democrat trying to pass yourself off as a libertarian
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