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Old 07-03-2010, 07:46 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
Reputation: 3647

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
They've been giving extensions and they haven't been helping.

The only thing that will work is to bring jobs back but you notice, not many of the unemployed are demanding the politicians do anything about that.
I mean, I would absolutely love to nationalize a bunch of industries and have the public sector create jobs. That'd please me to no end. But that IS socialism.

Extending unemployment benefits is the kind capitalist way to do things, because it gives people money to spend at businesses. The businesses make more money and can start hiring again/need to start hiring again because of more customers.

It is slow and painstaking, but when the economy was as fundamentally damaged as it was, that is gonna take a while to fix. You can't flip a switch to create jobs.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
I mean it, as does the article, in the technical definition of recession.
In the "technical" sense, ok.

But if you remove all the government "interventions" made into the economy via credits, subsidies and direct spending..did we recover ?

You see, I don't think we've even hit bottom yet on the FIRST recession.

They did this before with the last recession..lower rates and throw some money at us. We recovered by taking on more debt..hence why it was called the "jobless" recovery. It's obvious now that those tactics won't work this time..everyone's maxed out on debt from the last recovery. Either that or they are bankrupt and can't get debt. So a jobless recovery is pretty much out of the question. But DC doesn't recognize that quite yet.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:51 AM
 
Location: The Bronx
210 posts, read 173,102 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
Extending unemployment benefits is the kind capitalist way to do things
What !? LoL
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
I mean, I would absolutely love to nationalize a bunch of industries and have the public sector create jobs. That'd please me to no end. But that IS socialism.

Extending unemployment benefits is the kind capitalist way to do things, because it gives people money to spend at businesses. The businesses make more money and can start hiring again/need to start hiring again because of more customers.

It is slow and painstaking, but when the economy was as fundamentally damaged as it was, that is gonna take a while to fix. You can't flip a switch to create jobs.
Would YOU expand your business and hire people because UE got extended ?? UE is a fraction of what folks made and you think they'd spend more ?
More of what ? I volunteer at a food pantry and the middle class is now coming there..do you hear..the middle class to help make ends meet.
They are not out there buying plastic pumpkins (crap non essentials)..they are struggling to pay their bills.

Businesses are NOT making more money due to UE and any business person who decides to expand their business based on UE extensions deserves what they get.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:57 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Would YOU expand your business and hire people because UE got extended ?? UE is a fraction of what folks made and you think they'd spend more ?
More of what ? I volunteer at a food pantry and the middle class is now coming there..do you hear..the middle class to help make ends meet.
They are not out there buying plastic pumpkins (crap non essentials)..they are struggling to pay their bills.

Businesses are NOT making more money due to UE and any business person who decides to expand their business based on UE extensions deserves what they get.
No I wouldn't hire more people because of that, but that's not what I meant. You didn't misread, I phrased it badly.

With as many people out of work as there currently are, if we allow these benefits to expire thousands of people are gonna be without their benefits all at once. Businesses will feel that loss, and maybe we'll see even more layoffs instead of recovery.
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Old 07-03-2010, 07:59 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BX-ALBO View Post
What !? LoL

Debate me with something other than, "we should follow Herbert Hoover's example and do nothing" then.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:02 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
Reputation: 3647
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
In the "technical" sense, ok.

But if you remove all the government "interventions" made into the economy via credits, subsidies and direct spending..did we recover ?

You see, I don't think we've even hit bottom yet on the FIRST recession.

They did this before with the last recession..lower rates and throw some money at us. We recovered by taking on more debt..hence why it was called the "jobless" recovery. It's obvious now that those tactics won't work this time..everyone's maxed out on debt from the last recovery. Either that or they are bankrupt and can't get debt. So a jobless recovery is pretty much out of the question. But DC doesn't recognize that quite yet.
You have to have low rates though, otherwise people who already can't afford to borrow aren't going to do so. And throwing money at us is essential. I read today that the Small Business Administration is running out of stimulus cash. The government shouldn't always drive our economy but if it doesn't right now, nobody else is. It'll have to hit rock bottom and recover on its own, and that takes longer than if we have the government doing everything in its power to increase inflation and get Americans spending again.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:02 AM
 
Location: The Bronx
210 posts, read 173,102 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
Debate me with something other than, "we should follow Herbert Hoover's example and do nothing" then.
why dont we just print a whole bunch of bills and hand it out to everyone, that way no one will have to work. i guess that would be kind capitalism ey ? see how well that would work.

govt handouts in any form have got nothing to do with the free market system. that is a marxist concept.

so please, dont insult the term.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:04 AM
 
5,719 posts, read 6,447,937 times
Reputation: 3647
Quote:
Originally Posted by BX-ALBO View Post
why dont we just print a whole bunch of bills and hand it out to everyone, that way no one will have to work. i guess that would be kind capitalism ey ? see how well that would work.

govt handouts in any form have got nothing to do with the free market system. that is a marxist concept.

so please, dont insult the term.

Then I guess it's been Marxist every other time our government has ever extended unemployment benefits. Funny how it was never up for debate until now.
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Old 07-03-2010, 08:06 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,698,996 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by juppiter View Post
I mean, I would absolutely love to nationalize a bunch of industries and have the public sector create jobs. That'd please me to no end. But that IS socialism.

Extending unemployment benefits is the kind capitalist way to do things, because it gives people money to spend at businesses. The businesses make more money and can start hiring again/need to start hiring again because of more customers.

It is slow and painstaking, but when the economy was as fundamentally damaged as it was, that is gonna take a while to fix. You can't flip a switch to create jobs.
Wrong. Giving the unemployed free money so they can live it up shopping till they drop buying up foreign made products doesn't help our economy at all because that's just going to widen the trade deficit and increase the national debt that much more.

And trying to stimulate the housing industry where truck loads of illegals are brought in to build these cheap houses for the unemployed makes zero sense.

Just like giving corporations like GMC all that money so they could build more factories in China and Mexico didn't create jobs.

The way it's being done just makes the problems worse and no jobs are being created except for the illegal foreigners pouring over the borders.
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