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Old 07-05-2010, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,312,279 times
Reputation: 2888

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
No, this was my initial post:

"This is why I am against religion, of any kind! These evil and sadistic punishments for moral crimes all have roots in religion. Even the bible has countless accounts of stoning for perceived moral crimes. "

If Christians are the reason we enjoy democracy, I would assume Christians would be on the forefront fighting for equal rights of women and homosexuals. I would also assume that Christians would be first to fight for teaching science, as a freedom of speech thing, in all our schools.
Last I checked the bible was the holy book of CHRISTIANS. YOU brought the bible into the discussion, no?

Christians embrace individual freedoms and democracy. We don't stone, hang, or behead women or gays, do we? Equal rights and human rights are two completely separate issues, not necessarily religious and part political. Christianity is not a political movement as Islam is. Teaching science in schools has nothing to do with anything in this thread and you're hijacking the thread with your dribble.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
Last I checked the bible was the holy book of CHRISTIANS. YOU brought the bible into the discussion, no?

Christians embrace individual freedoms and democracy. We don't stone, hang, or behead women or gays, do we? Equal rights and human rights are two completely separate issues, not necessarily religious and part political. Christianity is not a political movement as Islam is. Teaching science in schools has nothing to do with anything in this thread and you're hijacking the thread with your dribble.
My point is:

Had we not had separation of church and state and the constitution to protect human rights, we would probably be a Christian theocracy. History has proven that even Christian Theocracies have resulted in cruel punishments for "moral"crimes. The instructions for such, are definitely in the Christian bible.

The thing that protects us from this is separation of church and state.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:51 PM
 
19,785 posts, read 12,037,251 times
Reputation: 17521
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
My point is:

Had we not had separation of church and state and the constitution to protect human rights, we would probably be a Christian theocracy. History has proven that even Christian Theocracies have resulted in cruel punishments for "moral"crimes. The instructions for such, are definitely in the Christian bible.

The thing that protects us from this is separation of church and state.

Perhaps you should start a new thread?
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:52 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,253,323 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsm113 View Post
Activist: Iranian mother of two to be stoned to death - CNN.com

"Ashtiani, 42, will be buried up to her chest, according to an Amnesty International report citing the Iranian penal code. The stones that will be hurled at her will be large enough to cause pain but not so large as to kill her immediately."


This is punishment for alleged adultery, the confession for which came as a result of torture and language barrier.

Is this punishment going to be carried out because Iran's government is Islamic or because Iran's government is a bunch of crazy @ssho!es?
2 extremes, us and them.
its not alleged, had a trial- shes guilty, by their court of law.
we, the other extreme, are opposed to any and all punishment, for anything.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Land of debt and Corruption
7,545 posts, read 8,312,279 times
Reputation: 2888
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
My point is:

Had we not had separation of church and state and the constitution to protect human rights, we would probably be a Christian theocracy. History has proven that even Christian Theocracies have resulted in cruel punishments for "moral"crimes. The instructions for such, are definitely in the Christian bible.

The thing that protects us from this is separation of church and state.
And as I've stated many times in this thread, it is because of Christians, not in spite of them, that we have separation of church and state. The country is overwhelmingly Christian, and if these Christians really wanted to, they have the sheer numbers to turn this country into a theocracy if that's what they desired. You also never answered the other posted who asked you how many Christian theocracies there are in the world. You make it sound like Christians everywhere are just clamoring for Christian theocracies, which is patently false. Don't bother answering, I don't want to continue this dialogue with you and hijack this thread any more that it already has been with your anti-Christian hatred.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,336,897 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
Last I checked the bible was the holy book of CHRISTIANS. YOU brought the bible into the discussion, no?

Christians embrace individual freedoms and democracy. We don't stone, hang, or behead women or gays, do we? Equal rights and human rights are two completely separate issues, not necessarily religious and part political. Christianity is not a political movement as Islam is. Teaching science in schools has nothing to do with anything in this thread and you're hijacking the thread with your dribble.

Bible supports the punishment for the crime.
Koran supports the punishment for the crime.

They are both, either right or wrong.
If we are a "Christian" nation, then we stand by the punishment.
If we are not, then we make our choices based on right vs wrong.
And we stand against it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,753,611 times
Reputation: 10789
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
Perhaps you should start a new thread?
I personally believe that the reason Iran still stones women and we do not is because we have separation of church and state and Iran does not.

Religion, of any kind, is the underlying motive behind these cruel and inhumane punishments for perceived moral crimes.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,376 posts, read 5,336,897 times
Reputation: 1633
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatyousay View Post
And as I've stated many times in this thread, it is because of Christians, not in spite of them, that we have separation of church and state. The country is overwhelmingly Christian, and if these Christians really wanted to, they have the sheer numbers to turn this country into a theocracy if that's what they desired. You also never answered the other posted who asked you how many Christian theocracies there are in the world. You make it sound like Christians everywhere are just clamoring for Christian theocracies, which is patently false. Don't bother answering, I don't want to continue this dialogue with you and hijack this thread any more that it already has been with your anti-Christian hatred.

If you ever read any of the works of Ralph Reed, you'd know he wants the United States to be a Christian theocracy. (And for years the Christian Coalition was the right hand of the Republican party resurgence in the late 80s and early 90's. They had the key to the front door of the white house, under Reagan, Bush and Bush)
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: California
454 posts, read 481,983 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexus View Post
Not every country in the world strives to be like us or is like us. Different values, customs, and rules. They view life and death differently, have different levels and types of punishments for crimes. We are in no position to judge them, especially given this country's history and shameful treatment of blacks and native Americans, and the continuing presence of the conservative ideology.

The "Dixie" mentality here, as practiced by conservatives, remains among the worst in the world.

"Heal yourself before you attempt to heal others."
If I follow your argument.
You are in no position to judge anything aside from you own society?
You can't judge anyone unless you are perfect yourself?
Conservative ideology is evil. Proof please!

This PC bull about not judging evil is ridiculous.
All it take for evil to prevails is for good man to do nothing.

That's is why liberal are standing with oppression of Muslims and not against, because they seem incapable of judging anyone except the Conservative.
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Old 07-05-2010, 05:28 PM
 
915 posts, read 1,187,712 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I personally believe that the reason Iran still stones women and we do not is because we have separation of church and state and Iran does not.

Religion, of any kind, is the underlying motive behind these cruel and inhumane punishments for perceived moral crimes.

No, it's because those in charge in Iran are bats@!t crazy.
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