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Old 06-27-2007, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,660,138 times
Reputation: 24860

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I am a liberal but I am decidedly not an idiot.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:29 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,425,821 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1 View Post
Tell that to all the people in the U.S who started out with nothing and became successful beyond their wildest dreams. Tell that to the two guys that started "google" in their garage. . . Tell that to the guy that started "Craigs List." I am sorry if you consider yourself a "pathetic dog." I am sorry that working hard and enjoying its fruits is not something you aspire to.
Ah, the Let Them Eat Cake mantra once again. Larry Page, Sergei Brin, and Craig Newmark are a whole three people, but their stories are enough to excuse the tens of millions who live below the poverty line and have no health insurance, and the tens of millions more who spend everyday under the threat of joining those. This is just another example of the standard neocon ploy of focusing on the outliers and denying that the main body of data even exists at all. As the OP pointed out, a very large segment of the US population is one medical emergency, one car accident, one divorce, or one down-sizing away from complete financial ruin. The neocon response? Well, we better tighten up on bankruptcy laws so that none of this ends up costing Big Money anything. That's a fine group that you hang out with, there. A problem comes along, and their first thought is how will this affect the rich. Maybe it's time we put a bit of a different focus into office. 11-07-06 was a start, but obviously there is work yet to be done...
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Old 06-27-2007, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,645,549 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Ah, the Let Them Eat Cake mantra once again. Larry Page, Sergei Brin, and Craig Newmark are a whole three people, but their stories are enough to excuse the tens of millions who live below the poverty line and have no health insurance, and the tens of millions more who spend everyday under the threat of joining those. This is just another example of the standard neocon ploy of focusing on the outliers and denying that the main body of data even exists at all. As the OP pointed out, a very large segment of the US population is one medical emergency, one car accident, one divorce, or one down-sizing away from complete financial ruin. The neocon response? Well, we better tighten up on bankruptcy laws so that none of this ends up costing Big Money anything. That's a fine group that you hang out with, there. A problem comes along, and their first thought is how will this affect the rich. Maybe it's time we put a bit of a different focus into office. 11-07-06 was a start, but obviously there is work yet to be done...
Do you recall that thing called the 'Great Depression'? Part of American history and I believe it was much worse than the current economic state that we are in today. My grandfather worked during the GD delivering groceries. He eventually got a job at a bank and worked his way up to President of the bank. He made sacrifices along the way and became rather successful.

Instead of looking for a hand out - he looked for a leg up and made something of himself. Plenty of opportunities and education available if people want it.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Holly Springs, NC USA
3,457 posts, read 4,645,549 times
Reputation: 1907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
Bravo ! I would put a clapping symbol but don't know how ! You have yet to say anything I disagree with Saganista.

I was one of the rich but my father disowned me because I didn't fit the mould ! Go figure ! I have always felt people with true class are not afraid to give back a bit of what they have and not just "privately" as in charity.
It is called altrusim. Wanting to give back out of a sense of doing what is right (unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others). Ironically, the places that so many of the liberals condemn, churches, are primary areas for doing work like this. I would rather foster a sense of altruism and giving through a church than a sense of guilt and dependence via the government.

Another fact of irony, Reublicans and conservatives donate more to charity annually than do liberals and Democrats.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:20 AM
 
9,882 posts, read 10,799,145 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
It is called altrusim. Wanting to give back out of a sense of doing what is right (unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others). Ironically, the places that so many of the liberals condemn, churches, are primary areas for doing work like this. I would rather foster a sense of altruism and giving through a church than a sense of guilt and dependence via the government.

Another fact of irony, Reublicans and conservatives donate more to charity annually than do liberals and Democrats.
Very well said bighouse, It boils down to the fact that liberals and socialist believe and put their faith in government, conservatives believe in people and private institutions.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,784,541 times
Reputation: 1198
Actually- churches use most donations to build their own infrastructures and missionary efforts. Just some trivia for you. When we have natural disasters (probably start seeing more of them due to global warming) the churches will not be able to respond. Government action will be required. Hopefully better then the Katrina fiasco.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:31 AM
 
2,971 posts, read 2,251,898 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHouse9 View Post
It is called altrusim. Wanting to give back out of a sense of doing what is right (unselfish regard for or devotion to the welfare of others). Ironically, the places that so many of the liberals condemn, churches, are primary areas for doing work like this. I would rather foster a sense of altruism and giving through a church than a sense of guilt and dependence via the government.

Another fact of irony, Reublicans and conservatives donate more to charity annually than do liberals and Democrats.
Exactly! A classic example; John Edwards vows to help the poor and "down-trodden" however he can't get along with his own neighbor! He puts him down for having a junky yard or whatever, he makes disrespectful comments about him in the press. Charity begins at home John Edwards! Typical hypocracy.

Conservatives live it while the liberals go out and protest and want someone else to fix it!
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Arizona
5,408 posts, read 7,784,541 times
Reputation: 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by spunky1 View Post
Exactly! A classic example; John Edwards vows to help the poor and "down-trodden" however he can't get along with his own neighbor! He puts him down for having a junky yard or whatever, he makes disrespectful comments about him in the press. Charity begins at home John Edwards! Typical hypocracy.

Conservatives live it while the liberals go out and protest and want someone else to fix it!
Objection your honor! John Edwards' social relations with his neighbor is entirely irrelevant to this discussion!
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
626 posts, read 991,649 times
Reputation: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by silas777 View Post
Very well said bighouse, It boils down to the fact that liberals and socialist believe and put their faith in government, conservatives believe in people and private institutions.
Wrong. Conservatism is a philosophy that seeks to preserve the status quo. That is the definition of conservatism. It has nothing to do with having faith in government or not. Liberalism is a philosophy that seeks to improve upon the status quo. How many times are you going to use these terms incorrectly before you finally realize your error?

Historically, liberalism has been about a break from feudalism. It has been about decentralizing government. It has been about individual rights. It has been about economic freedom. What you think liberals are, that's not what liberals believe. I have pointed this out in several other threads, but you seem to not understand. You are confusing liberals with left-wing authoritarians.

Last edited by Aqualung; 06-27-2007 at 10:04 AM.. Reason: Typo
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:53 AM
 
2,971 posts, read 2,251,898 times
Reputation: 658
Quote:
Originally Posted by bily4 View Post
Objection your honor! John Edwards' social relations with his neighbor is entirely irrelevant to this discussion!
John Edwards purports to be interested in aiding the poor, however he continues to demean and make derogatory comments regarding this neighbor who is less well-off than him, in regard to the upkeep of his property. It corelalates directly with the debate, and the hypocracy of many liberals!

Social issue=status in society. Edwards obviously deams himself higher up in society than his neighbor. He not only is not interested in aiding him but looks down on him, and wants nothing to do with him. Social issues have much to do with it!
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