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They got Health Care after having to battle through a media war of lies funded by corporate interests and executed by Republicans that was so aggressive the disproven, debunked lies continue to be resurrected today.
The result: A much weaker health care bill than proposed during the campaign.
Again, it's not about what Obama wanted. I (ME!) wanted a much stronger health care bill, but Republicans and Republican interests ruined that for ME by undermining the agenda with lies, unsubstantiated fear tactics, organized made-for-media mob scenes and distortions.
It's interesting.. If you ask most Americans if they support Obamas agenda about 57% say no. If you ask them if they support individual components of Obama's agenda -- like ask if they support stronger financial regualation and environmental controls about 65% say yes.
The result? The Republicans have successfully undermined Obama's agenda to the point when asked if they support many who support the components of it say "no." Why? They have started to believe that the distortions are the agenda... and the distortions have no resemblance to the actual agenda.
Distortion: Obama wants to take away our freedoms.
Reality: Obama wants corporations to pay their fare share for polluting the environment.
So the electorate are a bunch of lemmings who are easily manipulated. LOL, it does seem that way when you are on the losing end of an argument doesn't it?
The reality is people know health care costs will explode because of this bill. They know Obama lied when he said health care will not add to the deficit. People know Obama is anti business and there is $1.7 trillion sitting on the sidelines that could be used to employ people because of his policies. The people are smart, they can make mistakes (Obama, Jimmy Carter etc.) but they fix them pretty fast.
By the way you are all over the place. pollution, health care. Pick a subject and stick to it.
Finally, big business was on Obama's side during health care. His bill is a big wet kiss to the insurance companies and big Pharma.
Well of course you fellow man doesn't see his agenda as a positive thing.
See the Republicans are not solely worried about YOU, they are worried about the country and future generations and what is best for both. Apparently your agenda and the electorates are not aligned.
And you're going to try to convince me that the electorate was so worried about the long term survival of health insurance companies that they took to the town halls last summer?
I'm quite sure that the Republicans have done such a successful job undermining and distorting the agenda that the electorate is against the FICTION of an agenda that has been created, not the actual agenda. Individual components of the agenda-- healthcare for all, environmental regulation, etc., all continue to poll very high.
It's about power, plain and simple.
What part of the agenda do you think people are against? I'm sure if you asking the part many will refer to is "taking away our freedoms", "moving us into socialism" and "bankrupting the country.." which are all fictions that have been successfully created by Republicans to undermine the real agenda.
They got Health Care after having to battle through a media war of lies funded by corporate interests and executed by Republicans that was so aggressive the disproven, debunked lies continue to be resurrected today.
Again, it's not about what Obama wanted. I (ME!) wanted a much stronger health care bill, but Republicans and Republican interests ruined that for ME by undermining the agenda with lies, unsubstantiated fear tactics, organized made-for-media mob scenes and distortions.
Um... no... it was the insurance company lobbyists that struck their deal with I-promised-to-be-transparent-but-I-actually-make-deals-behind-closed-doors Obama.
[quote=shorebaby;15024432]So the electorate are a bunch of lemmings who are easily manipulated.[quote=shorebaby;15024432]
Uh, yeah. Pretty much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
The reality is people know health care costs will explode because of this bill. They know Obama lied when he said health care will not add to the deficit. People know Obama is anti business
Again, illustrating my original point about GOP attempts to undermine the agenda. While I think you greatly overestimate the economic prowess of the electorate, they "know" the falsehoods/opinions/propaganda listed above because the lies were well marketed by the GOP. The non-partisan CBO said that the health plan would reduce the deficit. They only think Obama is anti-business because it's become a mantra of the GOP-- again in an attempt to undermine Obama's presidency and agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
By the way you are all over the place. pollution, health care. Pick a subject and stick to it.
Sorry, political agendas are complicated. I'm not Fox News. There are many issues out there that are being obstructed. I don't simplify complex issues in a reductionistic manner so the lemmings "get it." The subject is the undermining of the President's agenda by the Republicans. That touches many areas.
And you're going to try to convince me that the electorate was so worried about the long term survival of health insurance companies that they took to the town halls last summer?
I'm quite sure that the Republicans have done such a successful job undermining and distorting the agenda that the electorate is against the FICTION of an agenda that has been created, not the actual agenda. Individual components of the agenda-- healthcare for all, environmental regulation, etc., all continue to poll very high.
It's about power, plain and simple.
What part of the agenda do you think people are against? I'm sure if you asking the part many will refer to is "taking away our freedoms", "moving us into socialism" and "bankrupting the country.." which are all fictions that have been successfully created by Republicans to undermine the real agenda.
No, quite the opposite. Obama's plan is a wet kiss to insurance companies, they now have 30 million new customers.
People object to not being able to keep their insurance. People object to the fact that physicians may not accept their insurance. People object to increased costs. People object to appointing the head of CMS as a recess appointment.
It is true that freedoms are being taken away. The government is dictating that people have insurance. The government is dictating the type of insurance you must have.
"The big problem with that reporting, and Obama’s claim that Obamacare will be “one of the biggest deficit-reduction plans in history†is that the CBO has explicitly reported that when the “doctor fix†is enacted, the $138 billion in paper “savings†disappear and a $59 billion dollar deficit over 10 years is created by Obamacare over 10 years:"
[quote=mlassoff;15025456][quote=shorebaby;15024432]So the electorate are a bunch of lemmings who are easily manipulated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
Uh, yeah. Pretty much.
Again, illustrating my original point about GOP attempts to undermine the agenda. While I think you greatly overestimate the economic prowess of the electorate, they "know" the falsehoods/opinions/propaganda listed above because the lies were well marketed by the GOP. The non-partisan CBO said that the health plan would reduce the deficit. They only think Obama is anti-business because it's become a mantra of the GOP-- again in an attempt to undermine Obama's presidency and agenda.
Sorry, political agendas are complicated. I'm not Fox News. There are many issues out there that are being obstructed. I don't simplify complex issues in a reductionistic manner so the lemmings "get it." The subject is the undermining of the President's agenda by the Republicans. That touches many areas.
More non sense in fact the CBO says Obama Care will increase the deficit, see above.
Of course he is anti business, he demonized Wall Street, Insurance Companies etc. Business obviously thinks he is against them, See Jeff Immelt and $1.7 trillion in business cash on the side lines.
I am afraid it is you who is being deceived by the likes of Soros et al. You don't even understand the latest CBO numbers. You haven't offered any argument other than people are stupid and the Republicans are evil. I have tried to educate you on the complexities of the issue but in your mind it is simple, if you are against health care you are a corporate, Republican tool. I'd say that is pretty simplistic, there is plenty not to like.
Since the original purpose of my thread was not to have drawn out policy arguments over individual legislation-- albeit interesting and useful-- I want to get back to the original point. Here are there current top Threads on the Political Forum on CD:
Is the NAACP intentionally stirring up Racial Tensions- (Non Presidential Agenda)
Michelle Obama: "everybody should come here!" Just not the Obama's (Attacks the First Lady for promoting vacations on beaches thought to be effect by the BP spill)
Why is obama.holder protecting the New Black Panther Party (Based on debunked charges about a case that was actually dismissed under Bush and promoted by a disgruntled Assistant US Attorney who got his job as part of Bush's US Attorney Purge scandal)
Yeah! Go Obama! (Celebrates the "Lack of Faith" in Obama Poll)
Man Sues Southwest Airlines...
Would you Support Changing the National Anthem...
GOP Economic Terrorism Destroys Safety Net
Election Official: I'd Testify That Obama was not born in to Hawaii
Bush's Contribution to National Debt
What more do these whining Democrats Want? (Attacks Obama for Using Recess Appointments-- As did his predecessor)
So out of these half attack Obama, not with substantiative arguments about his performance, but about manufactured falsehoods including his Birth Certificate, Involvement in the Black Panther party, and some pretty ridiculous ad hominim attack on the man's wife-- for promoting tourism in an area befallen by tragedy!
If this isn't evidence that Obama's agenda has been successfully undermined by the Republicans... what is? Like I said, there is plenty to criticize with Obama, but if we are to be successful, criticism must lead to change...
When the criticism is based on lies, viciousness and ambition, there is no response and the real criticism than can help fix things gets lost.
Since the original purpose of my thread was not to have drawn out policy arguments over individual legislation-- albeit interesting and useful-- I want to get back to the original point. Here are there current top Threads on the Political Forum on CD:
Is the NAACP intentionally stirring up Racial Tensions- (Non Presidential Agenda)
Michelle Obama: "everybody should come here!" Just not the Obama's (Attacks the First Lady for promoting vacations on beaches thought to be effect by the BP spill)
Why is obama.holder protecting the New Black Panther Party (Based on debunked charges about a case that was actually dismissed under Bush and promoted by a disgruntled Assistant US Attorney who got his job as part of Bush's US Attorney Purge scandal)
Yeah! Go Obama! (Celebrates the "Lack of Faith" in Obama Poll)
Man Sues Southwest Airlines...
Would you Support Changing the National Anthem...
GOP Economic Terrorism Destroys Safety Net
Election Official: I'd Testify That Obama was not born in to Hawaii
Bush's Contribution to National Debt
What more do these whining Democrats Want? (Attacks Obama for Using Recess Appointments-- As did his predecessor)
So out of these half attack Obama, not with substantiative arguments about his performance, but about manufactured falsehoods including his Birth Certificate, Involvement in the Black Panther party, and some pretty ridiculous ad hominim attack on the man's wife-- for promoting tourism in an area befallen by tragedy!
If this isn't evidence that Obama's agenda has been successfully undermined by the Republicans... what is? Like I said, there is plenty to criticize with Obama, but if we are to be successful, criticism must lead to change...
When the criticism is based on lies, viciousness and ambition, there is no response and the real criticism than can help fix things gets lost.
I am sure you were up in arms when the same tactics were used against Bush. Pssst, it's called politics.
Additionally, because you disagree with something it doesn't make it a lie. If you wish to designate something as such, it is incumbent upon you to say what specifically is a lie and to provide documentation of such.
Finally, I am sure you don't want to have a policy discussion, on policy the people don't agree with Obama. There is no reason for Republicans to lie, there is plenty of honest evidence to suggest Obama's policies are bad for the country.
One more thing, look at the highlighted threads, they attack Republicans, should those topics be out of bounds too? LOL
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