Letter to the business hating progressives (ethic, solution, high school, politicians)
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People just do not understand the concept of globalization apparently. ( Not like Bush and his Republican cronies did anything about it over their 8 years so stop with the childish "leftie" BS.)
We are all connected now. If you start putting up tariffs you are going to hurt whatever business we still have here because most get most of their materials/labor out of other countries now. Then other countries will retaliate and the whole deck of cards will fall apart. Too late to turn back the clock.
I was in some of those outsourcing meetings with big companies. Nobody was ever talking about "let's get out of here because of the tax implications." It was always - let's go get the free labor. That will not change.
There is IMO a nihilistic element in the far progressive left that is bent on destroying American. On the top of their agenda is the vilification of business, religion, family structure, military, etc. They will continue to pound away until they begin to dismantle and rebuild with their blueprint(green economy, political correctness, class division etc). They will chip away over and over and not stop until their ideas are mainstream and not to be challenged. If challenged the challenger will be marginalized and ridiculed. This group does not like American regardless of how much selling they do, they have an agenda and will see this through no matter how long it takes. Simply put they hate capitalism, religion, nuclear families and want a fantasy world of no class, no race, no religion, no military(unless to further their agenda), no capitalism. I guess they want North Korea or Cuba.
I read so called experts claiming both sides of this are true. Eliminate free trade to force production into this country, but then others say we export so much and need to purchase other products cheaper. If we can't get certain products cheaper, then there will be less cash flow available to purchase as many things locally. It's a catch 22.
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Originally Posted by Lowerdeck
Buy American and shop local movements
I don't know how we can enforce this. How do you force people to buy from one country without taking away their rights to buy what they want where they want? Do you really want ultra liberal or ultra conservative bureaucrats deciding what you can and cannot buy? How can they know what is best for you individually? How can anyone want to give up their personal rights to decision making? Slippery slope.
When people say limited government, they do not mean ZERO regulation. They just mean simple, easy to follow rules that do not overburden US companies and can keep them competitive. When you have a bunch of career politicians who know nothing about how businesses work, they are not going to make effective policy. This is where we are at now. A bunch of college educated know nothings making the rules. They don't know anything about real world economics. They just know how to pander and get elected.
Businesses have been abandoning us en masse. Yes government regulations play a part, but a relatively small part. Much more is just getting the slave labor and expanding the markets into developing countries.
government regulations play a small part? get real. how many businesses have to do a huge environmental impact study in china? or india? or any of the third world countries? the amount of red tape a business in america or europe has to go through to start up or expand is monsterous and expensive. add to that all the taxes, employment laws, in some places the requirement of being a union shop, and things get to the point where business either has to raise their prices substantially, or move to a more business friendly environment.
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Businesses have been largely responsible for all the havoc our country is going through. Between the housing bubble and the offshoring and the irresponsibility (greed) of the banks and the ineptitude of the auto industry.
you couldnt be more wrong. yes the banks offered easy credit because they got easy credit from the fed. but the person signing for a loan for a house or car they know they cannot afford is why we had the economic meltdown. if you only make $50k per year, why are you signing for a $500k house that in normal times you could never afford? why are you rolling previous loans into new ones so you can get that new car and get rid of your still very serviceable two year old car? running up huge debt cause the problem, not the banks. as for the so called ineptitude of the auto industry, again more bravo sierra. granted there were quality control issues, but they were minor especially compared to the 60's and 70's. a problem on a domestic car was a major problem, where as the same problem on a foreign car was a minor issue.
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This is why everyone is so outraged today that the government did not do more to regulate BP instead of just trusting BP to "do the right thing".
in this case i will agree with you. in other countries, relief wells, and better blow off valves are required, where as for the US, they are optional. with proper regulation, and proper oversight, business can do its job economically and safely.
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Yes we need business, but if the government had not jumped in and saved their and all of our collective asses these past few years we would be in a deep depression by now.
only one problem with this argument, THE GOVERNMENT CAUSED THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE TODAY! the fed kept interest rates artificially low since the late 80's. that combined with the federal government forcing financial institutions to give loans to people that everyone KNEW they pay back caused a huge bubble in the housing market, and when oil prices spiked like they did in 2008, all hell broke loose. the really sad thing is that the government has not done anything to fix the problem, namely fannie and freddy.
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Originally Posted by Lowerdeck
Alright, I'm going to tell you want you want to hear. Simply because you are going to ignore everything else anyway. Here we go...
I am a progressive and I hate all business. I hope Obama and the socialist regime will tax and regulate everything into oblivion. All businesses will become shutdown or taken over by the government. And in turn, those become shut down because nobody has the money to buy anything they produce. This country will collapse and boy will I be proud when that happens. Watching America become an anarchist state where many die just to fight for what little resources are left.
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Originally Posted by Lowerdeck
I hate all humanity (including you), God, and myself. The order depends on what's annoying me more at the moment.
Screw the destruction of America, I seek the destruction of all humanity.
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Originally Posted by Lowerdeck
Left wing talking points ahead:
Elimination of free trade agreements
Buy American and shop local movements
Not trying to race to the bottom, just for the sake of being cheap
i pity you lowerdeck, you have so much rage and hate built up that eventually it will tear you apart. i agree with the buy american sentiment, but by the same token i cant agree with eliminating free trade agreements. we tried that in 1930, and all it did was deepen the depression.
Oh really? So you don't think there are any progressives which follow this line of thinking. Go to a Green/Anarchist/Socialist Party meeting and tell me where I'm going wrong. These groups do exist and they have an agenda and it is clearly spelled out. There are the extreme minority, but are very determined and driven. Also, their line of thinking does influence others, maybe not as radical, but they do have an effect. These groups are the same ones who show up for meeting such as the Copenhagen Climate Treaty or the World Bank meetings. So please tell me where I'm going wrong with this one. If you think my post is like a Twilight Zone episode obviously you think my point of view has no credibility.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 07-17-2010 at 01:55 PM..
Quote:"government regulations play a small part? get real. how many businesses have to do a huge environmental impact study in china? or india? or any of the third world countries? the amount of red tape a business in america or europe has to go through to start up or expand is monsterous and expensive. add to that all the taxes, employment laws, in some places the requirement of being a union shop, and things get to the point where business either has to raise their prices substantially, or move to a more business friendly environment."
What happens when you run out of third world countries to exploit (they ALL wise up eventually)? Or when you run out of Americans willing to buy your foreign made crap?
government regulations play a small part? get real. how many businesses have to do a huge environmental impact study in china? or india? or any of the third world countries? the amount of red tape a business in america or europe has to go through to start up or expand is monsterous and expensive.
in this case i will agree with you. in other countries, relief wells, and better blow off valves are required, where as for the US, they are optional. with proper regulation, and proper oversight, business can do its job economically and safely.
So are you saying there should be more government regulation and oversight, or less?
What happens when you run out of third world countries to exploit (they ALL wise up eventually)? Or when you run out of Americans willing to buy your foreign made crap?
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Originally Posted by bily4
So are you saying there should be more government regulation and oversight, or less?
what i am calling for, and have always called for, is proper regulation, and proper government oversight. too much regulation and government intrusion and business goes else where if they can. under regulation and lack of oversight is also bad. but when business is allowed to work, they do great things. government did not create the computer chip, or even the computer, or the automobile, or the airplane or even the space shuttle, or any of the other things we currently enjoy. it was pretty much all private industry.
but when you force expensive regulations on the backs of business just to start up or expand, you cost the business money, and lots of it. when you do that the products they make or the services they provide get more expensive. when that happens people stop buying these products and services, and then business loses money. they lose enough money and they die.
to give you an example;
here in tucson a businessman bought a piece of property for four million dollars to build a new business on. the city and county required that he not only bring them their plan A for the business, but several other plans as well. each plan had to be examined by the various city and the county departments, until they were satisfied with, get this, PLAN A. it cost the business man $750,000 for all this, and he nearly dropped the project. it also took two years for the various agencies to give him their approval. by that time the bank through which he had his financing arraigned went out of business, and he had to get new financing.
if government were to reduce the amount of regulations, say have the businessman submit two plans for examination, and take 6 months to go over both sets, it would have cost the guy more like $100,000, a rather substantial savings dont you think?
this is just one example. if you look around you will find many examples. cut government regulation, and make it easier to start up or expand business in this country, and we can get the high paying manufacturing jobs back in this country, and the you wont have to worry about "exploiting" third world workers.
Progressives don't hate business, but conservatives exhibit an astonishing igorance of the welfare big business gets and the incentives other businesses get. According to the conservative think tank the Cato Institute, in 2006 the Bush administration doled out $92,000,000,000 in tax incentives and tax breaks to business. Add to this incentives routinely doled out by local and state governments in real estate tax credits, waiver of permit fees, tax abatements, low interest loans, small business development centers and you have a system totally out of wack. Add again the insanity of the tax code permitting American companies buying European sewer systems and buildings so they can depreciate them off of their books for US taxes. Now I know conservatives want to keep these tax breaks for companies writing off European sewer systems, but why?
Last edited by newhandle; 07-17-2010 at 05:58 PM..
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