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As I recall, women tend to be imprisoned for nonviolent offenses. Of course, there are violent women out there, but most are imprisoned for economic crimes (forging checks, etc.), not armed robbery and murder. I could look it up, but I'm too lazy, and so am going off memory here.
I've watched those childbirth shows, also. They are usually 30-60 minute shows. How long would you guess the average labor is (prior to actual delivery)? If I average two first-timers that I know personally together (they were pregnant at the same time, were two years apart in age, and gave birth one month apart), I get 18.25 hours. I'm not saying this was average, just the average of these two. Parents.com says first time labor can be 20 hours. It can be made shorter by walking and changing position - hard to do if you are cuffed to a bed.
Oh the real life childbirth thing, thats worse by far. Trust me, I was there 6 and 1/2 years ago.
It doesn't matter what their offense is, you broke the law. We can argue the over use of our criminal justice system all day long, I'd likely agree with you. (I personally think we over jail). However, thats a different argument. Once you are arrested, and in jail, thats where this argument starts.
Oh the real life childbirth thing, thats worse by far. Trust me, I was there 6 and 1/2 years ago.
It doesn't matter what their offense is, you broke the law. We can argue the over use of our criminal justice system all day long, I'd likely agree with you. (I personally think we over jail). However, thats a different argument. Once you are arrested, and in jail, thats where this argument starts.
Well, sure. We do over-incarcerate for nonviolent crimes. I'd much rather see restitution programs than jail. The question really becomes - do we treat nonviolent offenders as harshly as violent offenders? And do we give up our rights to be treated humanely just because we were arrested? Remember, some of these women who are giving birth in chains have been arrested, but not tried and convicted yet.
Well, sure. We do over-incarcerate for nonviolent crimes. I'd much rather see restitution programs than jail. The question really becomes - do we treat nonviolent offenders as harshly as violent offenders? And do we give up our rights to be treated humanely just because we were arrested? Remember, some of these women who are giving birth in chains have been arrested, but not tried and convicted yet.
Like I said, once you're in jail, you're all equal. They lock rapists up with murderers. We also lock up armed robbers with stock market frauders. (spelling?)
Once you're in jail, thats it, you're in jail. If you're in jail, you have no right, IMO, to complain about your treatment, unless it hurts you physically (like broken bones, beatings, etc).
Like I said, we can argue to reduce the size of our prosecutions, or those that are handed jail terms, and I'll probably agree with you. My point is, that once you're in jail, regardless of your crime, you're in jail.
Like I said, once you're in jail, you're all equal. They lock rapists up with murderers. We also lock up armed robbers with stock market frauders. (spelling?)
Once you're in jail, thats it, you're in jail. If you're in jail, you have no right, IMO, to complain about your treatment, unless it hurts you physically (like broken bones, beatings, etc).
Like I said, we can argue to reduce the size of our prosecutions, or those that are handed jail terms, and I'll probably agree with you. My point is, that once you're in jail, regardless of your crime, you're in jail.
I disagree - we don't lock up nonviolent offenders in maximum security. And you still haven't answered my previous question; do we give up our rights to be treated humanely when we are arrested?
Also, you did not address those who are awaiting trial. They are locked up, but not convicted. Should they be treated the same as those who are convicted of a violent crime?
As I recall, women tend to be imprisoned for nonviolent offenses. Of course, there are violent women out there, but most are imprisoned for economic crimes (forging checks, etc.), not armed robbery and murder. I could look it up, but I'm too lazy, and so am going off memory here.
I've watched those childbirth shows, also. They are usually 30-60 minute shows. How long would you guess the average labor is (prior to actual delivery)? If I average two first-timers that I know personally together (they were pregnant at the same time, were two years apart in age, and gave birth one month apart), I get 18.25 hours. I'm not saying this was average, just the average of these two. Parents.com says first time labor can be 20 hours. It can be made shorter by walking and changing position - hard to do if you are cuffed to a bed.
first labor: 26 hours
second labor: 10 hours
third labor: 5 hours
While I "get" that criminals are to be confined when outside the prison walls, it's not like a woman in the throes of labor (wonder if they get epidurals and pain meds ...) is going to make a break for it. I wonder who's regulation this is, the hospital's or the prison's ...
I guess if you want to meet halfway, bring 'em in cuffed, but once they are on the delivery table, take 'em off. When the baby is born and the mother is stitched up ... cuff 'em. The idea of trying to push a baby out while confined could hurt the mother.
The idea of trying to push a baby out while confined could hurt the mother.
Not just that, it could hurt the baby. If say the umbilical cord is wrapped around the child's neck, and because the mother is cuffed she isn't able to move into a position that would allow the doctor to help get to her child before it suffocates
Or what about in the middle of the procedure, that its determined that the baby is breech, that they need to do a C-Section (which happened in my case).
I disagree - we don't lock up nonviolent offenders in maximum security. And you still haven't answered my previous question; do we give up our rights to be treated humanely when we are arrested?
Also, you did not address those who are awaiting trial. They are locked up, but not convicted. Should they be treated the same as those who are convicted of a violent crime?
I think that, in a system that supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty", that no one should be held before trial, unless they pose a significant risk to society. If someone gets caught growing pot in their house, they go free, until trial, sorry.
We do lock up "non-violent" offenders in the same jails as violent offenders.
It's a very slippery slope when we start worrying about security measures being inconvenient for convicted criminals, and about keeping them in comfort if they are sick or dying. These criminals have victims, who were typically not treated with kindness and consideration.
This is the same Liberal reasoning that released the Lockerbie Bomber and allowed him to go home in August 2009 to his native Libya because he had prostate cancer.
"The man convicted of murdering 270 people by blowing up Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, two decades ago received a boisterous welcome when his plane landed in his native Libya on Thursday."
He's still alive close to a year later, and the cancer expert who predicted he would die within three months of his release from prison has admitted he could live for another ten years or more. Also, "Dr. Swire accepted that Megrahi's condition may have improved markedly thanks to expensive treatment paid for by Libyan government."
wow, thanks for bringing an irrelevant argument to the thread.
We are not talking about people who murdered someone; the woman and the women in the OP were arrested of minor crimes; All she was arrested for was missing a court date on a shop lifting charge (which would have only carried a fine and restitution to the store).
I was basically "shackled" during my delivery anyway given the monitors and iv's and tubes and wires that they had me hooked up to.
I am not caring about this issue.
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