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Old 07-22-2010, 10:05 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
well said.



why must you only look at the seedy side of things? and a one in a million success story? there are plenty more, you just need to open your eyes. for instance, 30 years ago i knew a black man who was the chief master sargent at davis monthan air force base, and he was in line to be the chief master sargent of the air force if he so chose to go after that position. and there are many other success stories, you can even look at president obama if you like, but better would be clarence thomas, michael jordan, jc watts, many members of congress, there are many black judges around the country, and many black scientists, business owners, etc. if you only look at the inner cities, you are only looking at a tiny part of the whole. and you are doing a disservice to those who got out of the inner cities and made something of themselves.
the poor inner city, it is the part that i have served for many years, its what i know. it was the wounded deer that needed help-- not the rich and strong, but the poor and weak. it is those who have been left behind when you "moved on up". telling them they are the next michael jordan and the next tiger woods or brillant surgeon is not helping them.

 
Old 07-22-2010, 10:52 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,750,280 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
the poor inner city, it is the part that i have served for many years, its what i know. it was the wounded deer that needed help-- not the rich and strong, but the poor and weak. it is those who have been left behind when you "moved on up". telling them they are the next michael jordan and the next tiger woods or brillant surgeon is not helping them.
really? did you give them the hope that was in your heart when you first started working in the inner city? or did you look around and say to yourself, well there is nothing i can do here? i believe that there are ways to reach even the hardcore gang bangers, but way too many people just figure that they are beyond redemption and turn their backs figuratively and literally.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 11:00 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
really? did you give them the hope that was in your heart when you first started working in the inner city? or did you look around and say to yourself, well there is nothing i can do here? i believe that there are ways to reach even the hardcore gang bangers, but way too many people just figure that they are beyond redemption and turn their backs figuratively and literally.
since you asked-- no. it was the reverse-- it got much harder at the end bek i knew alot more then. the most terrible part was the look in one persons eye when i left. i spent 12 years of my life trying to help that person. they were in the same spot i found them just older and fatter. they have been thrown 1000 life preservers and refused, they had conned nobody but themselves. they too believed in the eddy murphy dream- instead of a series of small successes. they too like you, had nothing but contempt for vocational work and training.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 11:13 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,750,280 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
since you asked-- no. it was the reverse-- it got much harder at the end bek i knew alot more then. the most terrible part was the look in one persons eye when i left. i spent 12 years of my life trying to help that person. they were in the same spot i found them just older and fatter. they have been thrown 1000 life preservers and refused, they had conned nobody but themselves. they too believed in the eddy murphy dream- instead of a series of small successes. they too like you, had nothing but contempt for vocational work and training.
well put, but where did you get the idea that i have contempt for vocational training and work? i said NOTHING to indicate that what so ever. i guess the fact that i have a degree in automotive technology means nothing? i believe that real success isnt how much money you make, but what kind of difference you make. there are those that for some reason refuse to be saved. all we can do is help the ones that are willing to better themselves, and keep working on those that refuse help. but i have never denigrated the trades. not matter what happens in society, no matter what happens with technology, there will always be a need for people to design, build, and repair the technology. we will still need sheet metal workers, janitors, glass workers, mechanics, technicians, etc.

what i want to see happen is that children are encouraged to follow their dreams, and expand their abilities. if that means young malik grows up to be president, great, if he grows up to be a tire changer at discount tires, that is just as good. it doesnt matter what they make of themselves, as long as they make something good of themselves.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 11:34 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
well put, but where did you get the idea that i have contempt for vocational training and work? i said NOTHING to indicate that what so ever. i guess the fact that i have a degree in automotive technology means nothing? i believe that real success isnt how much money you make, but what kind of difference you make. there are those that for some reason refuse to be saved. all we can do is help the ones that are willing to better themselves, and keep working on those that refuse help. but i have never denigrated the trades. not matter what happens in society, no matter what happens with technology, there will always be a need for people to design, build, and repair the technology. we will still need sheet metal workers, janitors, glass workers, mechanics, technicians, etc.

what i want to see happen is that children are encouraged to follow their dreams, and expand their abilities. if that means young malik grows up to be president, great, if he grows up to be a tire changer at discount tires, that is just as good. it doesnt matter what they make of themselves, as long as they make something good of themselves.
friend you keep putting forth examples of unskilled labor---- cooks, tire changers-- and calling it "the trades". a licensed plumber an RN, a pipe fitter, an electrician, are not the same as a tire changer. often a skilled blue collar worker makes more than a dentist or optomitrist. it was good enough for our grandparents, what happened???? why all the contempt on the hood??? as to dreams- people on the hood do a lota dreaming. i do mine at night.
i do my dreaming at night and my succeeding in the day, i give 100% to both.
unrealistic goals and contempt for achieveable goals is the curse of the hood.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 11:54 AM
 
Location: East Chicago, IN
3,100 posts, read 3,295,516 times
Reputation: 1697
No one aspires to be the guy working for the boss, they aspire to be the boss. But you have to get in on the ground floor to work your way up, but no one wants to be a plumber or whatever for the rest of their life, unless they're just complacent. I get hired for an entry level job, I go in wondering how long until I have YOUR job,
 
Old 07-22-2010, 11:56 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000 View Post
No one aspires to be the guy working for the boss, they aspire to be the boss. But you have to get in on the ground floor to work your way up, but no one wants to be a plumber or whatever for the rest of their life, unless they're just complacent. I get hired for an entry level job, I go in wondering how long until I have YOUR job,
then i must be no one and my grandfather must have been no one.
btw here is my car i paid cash. and i didnt get the cash by joining a gang and selling dope.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/bmw/540specifications.htm
 
Old 07-22-2010, 12:15 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,750,280 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
friend you keep putting forth examples of unskilled labor---- cooks, tire changers-- and calling it "the trades". a licensed plumber an RN, a pipe fitter, an electrician, are not the same as a tire changer. often a skilled blue collar worker makes more than a dentist or optomitrist. it was good enough for our grandparents, what happened???? why all the contempt on the hood??? as to dreams- people on the hood do a lota dreaming. i do mine at night.
i do my dreaming at night and my succeeding in the day, i give 100% to both.
unrealistic goals and contempt for achieveable goals is the curse of the hood.
you must have stopped reading before i mentioned that we also need mechanics, technicians, sheet metal workers, etc. these ARE skilled jobs, as are welders, steel workers, etc. my point, which you completely missed in it entirety, was that we need people at ALL LEVELS, not just the skilled trades, not just he unskilled trades, not just the white collar trades, we need people EVERYWHERE. i have no contempt for the "hood", in fact i think there is a lot of good talent there in many areas, and we NEED to change things there.

but too many people today look down on jobs like flipping burgers, and mopping floors, and changing tires, and unskilled labor like that. i am 51 years old, and my grand parents, and my parents had a word for such jobs, they called it opportunity. they didnt look down on those jobs, why? because it gets people in the door. it gets them real world job experience of having to punch a clock, and follow orders, and learn. it gives them opportunity to show that they can be a team player, and that they can be responsible.

it does no good to go to college, graduate with a degree, and then expect to leave college making $100k per year, it doesnt happen. everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up, you dont just leave school one day and become the CEO of a major corporation. heck you might be lucky to become lower management at best.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you must have stopped reading before i mentioned that we also need mechanics, technicians, sheet metal workers, etc. these ARE skilled jobs, as are welders, steel workers, etc. my point, which you completely missed in it entirety, was that we need people at ALL LEVELS, not just the skilled trades, not just he unskilled trades, not just the white collar trades, we need people EVERYWHERE. i have no contempt for the "hood", in fact i think there is a lot of good talent there in many areas, and we NEED to change things there.

but too many people today look down on jobs like flipping burgers, and mopping floors, and changing tires, and unskilled labor like that. i am 51 years old, and my grand parents, and my parents had a word for such jobs, they called it opportunity. they didnt look down on those jobs, why? because it gets people in the door. it gets them real world job experience of having to punch a clock, and follow orders, and learn. it gives them opportunity to show that they can be a team player, and that they can be responsible.

it does no good to go to college, graduate with a degree, and then expect to leave college making $100k per year, it doesnt happen. everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up, you dont just leave school one day and become the CEO of a major corporation. heck you might be lucky to become lower management at best.
now you are talking now you are singing and i am with you i am standing next to you and proud.
you got rep.
 
Old 07-22-2010, 12:27 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,260,493 times
Reputation: 55556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
you must have stopped reading before i mentioned that we also need mechanics, technicians, sheet metal workers, etc. these ARE skilled jobs, as are welders, steel workers, etc. my point, which you completely missed in it entirety, was that we need people at ALL LEVELS, not just the skilled trades, not just he unskilled trades, not just the white collar trades, we need people EVERYWHERE. i have no contempt for the "hood", in fact i think there is a lot of good talent there in many areas, and we NEED to change things there.

but too many people today look down on jobs like flipping burgers, and mopping floors, and changing tires, and unskilled labor like that. i am 51 years old, and my grand parents, and my parents had a word for such jobs, they called it opportunity. they didnt look down on those jobs, why? because it gets people in the door. it gets them real world job experience of having to punch a clock, and follow orders, and learn. it gives them opportunity to show that they can be a team player, and that they can be responsible.

it does no good to go to college, graduate with a degree, and then expect to leave college making $100k per year, it doesnt happen. everyone starts at the bottom and works their way up, you dont just leave school one day and become the CEO of a major corporation. heck you might be lucky to become lower management at best.
very good post, i would make one small exception sheet metal and steel works inc skilled semi skilled and unskilled.
i can say that--- being a former steel worker.
very important to distinguish between skilled semi skilled and unskilled labor. these days the word "skilled" gets thrown around alot.
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