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Old 07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,834,826 times
Reputation: 1438

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Sorry, no. You're disingenuously adding words that Peck did not say, just like Wright did. Peck makes his intent clear by his actual words:
"They came to do to us what they perceive, it doesn't make them right, but what they perceive is we've been doing the same thing now for a long time in various parts of the world. It doesn't make them right or us wrong. Don't misunderstand me.

...These people are terrorists. They resort to that because they can't take us on, head on, nor should they even, well they can't. But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not perceived that way by the people that we bomb."

Peck's intention is quite clear, and it doesn't match the intent of Wright's sermon. Wright based his entire sermon on Malcolm X's "Chickens come home to roost - white America is doomed" speech.


Which Peck clarifies a little further into the interview...
"These people are terrorists. They resort to that because they can't take us on, head on, nor should they even, well they can't. But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not *perceived* that way by the people that we bomb.

...it doesn't make them right... It doesn't make them right or us wrong."

There is no such intention in Wright's sermon. The PBS Ombudsman agrees that Wright's attempt to assert otherwise is too much of a stretch.
"we've been doing the same thing now for a long time in various parts of the world."

What are the "same acts" that Peck references? Clearly it is acts of violence. Which Peck reinforces when challenged.

"Yeah. You want a list of the countries that we've bombed and invaded over the last 25 years?"

Have you read or heard the entire sermon? The sermon is based on Psalm 137.

Rev. Wright from the sermon:
Most of us are familiar with just that part of Psalm 137. Most of us are only familiar with the first 6 verses of Psalm 137. Most of us have not read or heard the last 3 verses of this song, and most of us, I can guarantee you, have never heard a sermon that touched any of the thoughts or feelings expressed in these last 3 verses.

What are those thoughts and feelings as expressed in the the last 3 verses?

Some of the feelings we have, as people of faith in the 21st century are similar to the feelings of the people of faith had in the 6th century, B.C. And, when you read and, and study this Psalm, in its entirety. The parallel between those feelings becomes almost eerily crystal clear. That's why I didn't want you to stop at the famous and familiar verse six. I wanted you to read, to hear and to experience all nine verses of Psalm 137 to get the full scope of what it is this song is saying. Pray with me for just a few moments on this subject.
...
The day of Jerusalem's fall was a day that changed these peoples lives forever. The day of Jerusalem's fall was a day of pain, a day of anger, a day of rage, a day of terror, a day of outrage, a day of death, a day of destruction. And, verse 8 of Psalm 137 says a day of devastation. [LEFT]
The people who sang this song saw their loved ones die. The people who sang this song saw senseless carnage. The people who sang this song saw their landmarks burned. They saw their church burned. They saw their town burned. They saw their places of employment burned. They saw their places of enjoyment burned. Some of the people they worked beside, they would never see again. Some of the people they walked beside, they would never see again. Some of the people they lived beside, they would never see again.


And, the day of Jerusalem's fall was a day that would live forever in their memories. The day of Jerusalem's fall was a day that changed their lives forever. The day of Jerusalem's fall was a day for the people of faith, remember these are people of faith
...
The people of faith move from reverence in verses 4 to 6, to revenge in verses 8 and 9. They want revenge! They want somebody to destroy those who devastated them. In fact, in fact they want God to get even with those who did evil. Remember O'Lord against the Edomites. Remember O'Lord the day of Jerusalem's fall. The first move is where the people of faith move from reverence to revenge. The second move in this text is a move from worship to war. Jerusalem is where they worship. Now, they have declared war!
...
Look at verse 9, look at verse 9, look at verse 9, “Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rocks. The people of faith are the rivers of Babylon. How shall we sing the Lord’s song if I forget the (unintelligible). . . The people of faith have moved from the hatred of armed enemies, these soldiers who captured the king, who slaughtered his son, they put his eyes out, the soldiers who sacked the city, burned the towns, burned the temples, burned the towers, and moved from the hatred of armed enemies to the hatred of unarmed innocents, the babies, the babies .“Blessed are they who dash your baby’s brains against a rock.” And that my beloveds is a dangerous place to be. Yet, that is where the people of faith are in 551 BC and that is where the people of faith are, far too many people of faith are in 2001 AD.

We have moved from the hatred of armed enemies to the hatred of unarmed innocence.

The "Faith Footnote" was only a small part of the sermon which had nothing to do with Peck or Malcolm X.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:24 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,780 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13622
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude View Post
Apparently, yes. Bright opinionated people.
You're claiming that bright people advocate fascism? Really?

Quote:
Sure you do. It happens in this very forum dozens of times a day. You can't with a straight face pretend that calls for arguably "fascist" actions such as the military arresting Obama or the criminalization of Islam are not the stock in trade of threads that you read in this very forum every single day.
Someone calls for the military to arrest Obama and for the criminalization of Islam every single day here on the C-D POC forum?

You're not dealing in reality. No wonder what you say doesn't ring true.

Quote:
In personal conversation people often advocate (entirely arguendo) all sorts of controversial ideas. That is because private conversations are never meant to be objective. They are subjective, emotional, challenging, direct and unabashedly partisan. You sound a lot like Claude Rains in Casablanca pretending he is "shocked" to find gambling going on in the back of Rick's Place.
Not quite the same. You're thinking these were just random philosophical discussions. Instead, this was an active collusion to falsely label Obama critics as racist. We've seen the direct evidence of that unethical collusion many, many times for the past 2+ years.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,780 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13622
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
"we've been doing the same thing now for a long time in various parts of the world."

What are the "same acts" that Peck references? Clearly it is acts of violence. Which Peck reinforces when challenged.
No. You're adding your own prejudice to Peck's words to see what you want to see.

In context:
ASMAN: What country, in what country have we rammed a plane loaded with fuel through a known civilian center such as was done this week? Excuse me, Ambassador, but I can't think of a precedent for this week anywhere in the world, certainly not one committed by the United States.
PECK: Certainly not, we've never had to do that because we have, you know, untrammeled military force. These people are terrorists. They resort to that because they can't take us on, head on, nor should they even, well they can't. But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not perceived that way by the people that we bomb.

The people we bomb = terrorists. Peck's own words.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:00 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,675,147 times
Reputation: 18304
That is just the worm turning o itself ;nothing more.Why anyoe would be shocked when all tehy have to do is look at what they hid from the american people and in fact created in the camelot fraud of JFK.Agenda motive is nothing new for journalism. I guess some would be shocked toelarn just why journalist have those sourses.Basically no matter which side itsmore a case of being picked by the sources as a relaible promtoer of a agenda. The source can control the juranlist more than the other way around.hat is part of politics.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,834,826 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. You're adding your own prejudice to Peck's words to see what you want to see.

In context:
ASMAN: What country, in what country have we rammed a plane loaded with fuel through a known civilian center such as was done this week? Excuse me, Ambassador, but I can't think of a precedent for this week anywhere in the world, certainly not one committed by the United States.
PECK: Certainly not, we've never had to do that because we have, you know, untrammeled military force. These people are terrorists. They resort to that because they can't take us on, head on, nor should they even, well they can't. But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not perceived that way by the people that we bomb.

The people we bomb = terrorists. Peck's own words.
Peck: But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not perceived that way by the people that we bomb. I offer you Panama. I give you Haiti. Take Cambodia. What about Iraq?

Which one of the examples Peck offered up were examples of the U.S. bombing terrorists? None. We didn't bomb Panama, Haiti, Cambodia or pre-9/11 Iraq because of Terrorism.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:27 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,780 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13622
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Peck: But the point is that some of the things that we have done in the firm, honest belief that we are advancing the cause of justice, human rights, and freedom and all of that are not perceived that way by the people that we bomb. I offer you Panama. I give you Haiti. Take Cambodia. What about Iraq?

Which one of the examples Peck offered up were examples of the U.S. bombing terrorists? None. We didn't bomb Panama, Haiti, Cambodia or pre-9/11 Iraq because of Terrorism.
Really?
Think back to what was going on in those countries at the time...
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,893 posts, read 16,049,604 times
Reputation: 3954
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You're claiming that bright people advocate fascism? Really?
Nope. I'm claiming that bright opinionated people are not afraid of talking about dangerous ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Not quite the same. You're thinking these were just random philosophical discussions. Instead, this was an active collusion to falsely label Obama critics as racist. We've seen the direct evidence of that unethical collusion many, many times for the past 2+ years.
No... they were just random philosophical discussions. The actual actions taken (and more importantly not taken) prove that.
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Old 07-21-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,057,225 times
Reputation: 13771
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucsLose View Post
Journalists today are as bad and corrupt as politicians. Each group needs the same fate. They need to be weeded out and fired, all of them. We'd be so much better off. One can dream I suppose....
They are partisan politicians, and their politics is expressed to a concerted effort to mislead the public and besmirch anyone they disagree with politically or ideologically. These are the small minority of progressive liberals who are trying to sway the political landscape of the country.

Deep down, the American people have been figuring out that the media is lying to them, and not being honest and truthful, which is why they have been abandoning the old mainstream media and switching to Fox News. While not perfect, Fox is at least reporting the news, not hiding and hyping it.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
37,953 posts, read 22,057,225 times
Reputation: 13771
Quote:
Originally Posted by california-jewel View Post
The way i see this, is the media is responsible for lack of bringing truth forward in these kinds of stories. The media has known a lot about Obama, but more so then other has gotten free passes, and stories that should be brought up in the open, have been kept quiet. Any other President, would be under scrutiny, but not Obama. Media has helped make Obama what he is. Thinks he is a legion in his own mind. Anything is a go with Obama, no questioning him, just take him at his word, would not be like this one bit with other past presidents, let me refrase, has not been like this with any other President.
With such a thin resume, an almost nonexistent work history, no accomplishments and no intelecutal works, except two self serving books, the media should have hounded this guy about his college transcripts and his associations, but they ignored it all, and wrote sycophantic news stories with photos depicting Christ-like halos above his head.
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Old 07-21-2010, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Vermont
11,754 posts, read 14,611,102 times
Reputation: 18503
So I guess we know what's going on: the people who used to take their marching orders from Rush Limbaugh, and then Glen Beck, have turned into stenographers for Andrew Breitbart.
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