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Just a thought that came to me as a result of the debate over the "masjids" near the site of the WTC. Some have argued that no mosque should be built near the WTC site until the Saudi's allow churches in thier country. Well the only problem with that argument is that Saudi Arabia is home of Islam much as Vatican City is the home for Roman Catholics, but don't recall anyone demanding that Vatican City allow the establishment of a protestant church on ther land.
Does anyone have any idea if Muslims want indeed a mosque at WTC, or like in many other cases we are just arguing with ourselves?
Does anyone have any idea if Muslims want indeed a mosque at WTC, or like in many other cases we are just arguing with ourselves?
???
You mean you haven't read the ten or so threads on this subject since New York Post article came out in late May?
Here are the facts:
A Muslim congregation meets at a 150-year-old+ building on Park Place, two blocks north of the World Trade Center. Prior to 9/11 the building housed a coat store (one of the Burlington Coat Factory chain stores). The building was damaged by a jet engine on 9/11.
Another mosque has existed in the area for about 30 years--it's about ten blocks from this one.
The congregation at Park Place wants to tear down the old, damaged building and build a new one. In addition to the mosque/prayer areas, it will be a community center with a swimming pool and other amenities. The imam of this congregation has stated that the mission of this Islamic center is to foster understanding between religions and cultures.
About 50,000 people are residents of this downtown area represented by Community Board 1, which has no real governmental approval power but which formed to make their voices known with regards to what happens in their neighborhood. A good example is that they are in constant contact with the stakeholders in the rebuilding of the World Trade Center site regarding noise, traffic, etc.
The imam for this Islamic center brought his plans before CB 1 in May, and they approved the center, after which it was reported in the New York Post with some false embellishments (such as that the center would open on 9/11/11, which is absolutely untrue), after which all hell broke loose.
There are a jillion articles, but this one includes a rendering of the proposed building.
You mean you haven't read the ten or so threads on this subject since New York Post article came out in late May?
Here are the facts:
A Muslim congregation meets at a 150-year-old+ building on Park Place, two blocks north of the World Trade Center. Prior to 9/11 the building housed a coat store (one of the Burlington Coat Factory chain stores). The building was damaged by a jet engine on 9/11.
Another mosque has existed in the area for about 30 years--it's about ten blocks from this one.
The congregation at Park Place wants to tear down the old, damaged building and build a new one. In addition to the mosque/prayer areas, it will be a community center with a swimming pool and other amenities. The imam of this congregation has stated that the mission of this Islamic center is to foster understanding between religions and cultures.
About 50,000 people are residents of this downtown area represented by Community Board 1, which has no real governmental approval power but which formed to make their voices known with regards to what happens in their neighborhood. A good example is that they are in constant contact with the stakeholders in the rebuilding of the World Trade Center site regarding noise, traffic, etc.
The imam for this Islamic center brought his plans before CB 1 in May, and they approved the center, after which it was reported in the New York Post with some false embellishments (such as that the center would open on 9/11/11, which is absolutely untrue), after which all hell broke loose.
There are a jillion articles, but this one includes a rendering of the proposed building.
Sorry, I understand that local Muslim residents would like a new mosque. But the significance of that one goes beyond local. Does the Muslim world want a mosque there?
Let me guess, your kind of "grown ups"? I love this quote: "Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional"
This reminds me of Hitler's quote: "The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it".
Do you believe in personal freedoms, that muslims should be as free to practice their religion as you expect for yourself? Your response should settle it.
I absolutely believe that muslims should be able to practice their religion--but as with any rights we have, the moment you infringe upon another's right, your rights become null.
I have the freedom of speech until I want to stand up and yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Likewise, you've got freedom of religion, but you can't practice it exactly as you wish. You have to respect the rights of others.
I absolutely believe that muslims should be able to practice their religion--but as with any rights we have, the moment you infringe upon another's right, your rights become null.
I have the freedom of speech until I want to stand up and yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater. Likewise, you've got freedom of religion, but you can't practice it exactly as you wish. You have to respect the rights of others.
Which of yours or anyone elses rights does this Muslim center in NYC infringe upon?
Sorry, I understand that local Muslim residents would like a new mosque. But the significance of that one goes beyond local. Does the Muslim world want a mosque there?
Oh sorry, for the misunderstanding, lol.
I have no idea if the Muslim world wants a mosque there, but I can't see any reason that they wouldn't. Every religion is happy is when THEIR religion gets to establish itself somewhere, either through a physical facility or some other manifestation. Just as I was very happy to learn recently that a Trader Joe's is opening down the street from where I live.
Roman Catholics don't kill "infidels" by flying hijacked planes into buildings.
Too busy piddline little boys... but that's a topic for another thread.
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The problem with Islam is it is wholly intolerant of all other religions,
Which simply isn't true, now or historically.
Now let's get real about bin Laden and al-Qaeda. Their issue isn't about spreading Islam to the west, it about ending the west "interference in the Islamic world" be that interference justifed or not as bin Laden, I would say clearly, but there is nothing clear about his rambling ditribes.
Unfortunately, bin Laden sound erriely similar to the likes of yourself.
It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. Their blood was spilled in Palestine and Iraq. The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana, in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. Massacres in Tajakestan, Burma, Cashmere, Assam, Philippine, Fatani, Ogadin, Somalia, Erithria, Chechnia and in Bosnia-Herzegovina took place, massacres that send shivers in the body and shake the conscience. All of this and the world watch and hear, and not only didn't respond to these atrocities, but also with a clear conspiracy between the USA and its' allies and under the cover of the iniquitous United Nations, the dispossessed people were even prevented from obtaining arms to defend themselves.
Ibid.
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the Bill of Rights and every value Americans cherish.
Well bin Laden certainly doesn't cherish the Bill of Rights for his world, but he doesn't seem to give a damn what we do in our.
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Roman Catholics and the the Catholic church are compatible with secular governments, religious freedom and the rights of the individual. Big difference.
Well having lost the battle (literally) they are, just as tens of millions of Muslims who live in secular states (on another thread I pointed out the number of majority Islamic countries and the fact that only a tiny minority rule under any form of Islamic law), including the multitude that live in the U.S. and have long before you ever knew what a Muslim is.
Frankly, If you and the bin Ladens of the world keep this nonsense going, the only thing that I can think of is Tevye from Fiddler on the Roof who during the following exchange makes the remark:
Villager: An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Tevye: Very good. That way the whole world will be blind and toothless.
Well if they are tolerant of other religions why don't they make a deal. Put a mosque in downtown NY and let another religion build a church in the center of their biggest city. Is it a deal???
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