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Deists are pretty far away from Christian, and many of them were proclaimed deists.
Deism (pronounced /ˈdiːɪzəm/, us dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without the need for either faith or organized religion. Many Deists reject the notion that God intervenes in human affairs, for example through miracles and revelations. These views contrast with the dependence on revelations, miracles, and faith found in many Jewish, Christian, Islamic and other theistic teachings.
Pretty far away from Christianity.
I have heard this repeated like a bloody mantra, and no doubt you are simply repeating it, without the foundation to know what you're talking about.
Almost without exception, the founding fathers were Christians of one form or another, and there are THOUSANDS of references that prove this beyond any reasonable doubt, spread out over a vast array of documents and personal statements.
One such statement by Benjamin Franklin (who is considered an Episcopalian-Deist) written in a letter to the President of Yale who iquired as to his views on religion ... Franklin wrote:
As to Jesus of Nazareth , my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Franklin was dying at the time .. and died a month later)
Franklin's statements here acknowledge Jesus as the issuer of the religion and morals, the best the world has ever seen. His questions about Jesus' "divinity" is not unlike a lot of Christians who believe he was the Son of God, and not God himself. Clearly, the "deist" portion that was a common stance among several founding fathers postulated that it was man's responsibility to govern themselves, and that God or the "Creator" would not intervene in man's affairs through acts of miracles ... but this has been misrepresented to mean he didn't believe in the guiding principles of religion or of God. The following should put any such false notion to rest, permanently:
During the constitutional convention, Franklin addressed the assembly with this statement:
In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when present to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings?... I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men.
Now, you'd have to have a very poor grasp of the english language to deny Franklin's own words here that the morals and religion given us by Jesus being the best the world has ever seen was anything other than confirmation that he was indeed a Christian.
But this is just a drop in the ocean ... here's a little more:
John Adams said: "It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue."
and he also said:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- Oct.11, 1798 Address to the military
John Quincy Adams: "Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. . ?"
and HE ALSO SAID
"The law given from Sinai [the 10 commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes . . . of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
Benjamin Franklin said: "And if a a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings [of the Bible], that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
James Madison: "therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." -- , The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787
Thomas Jefferson: "The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind."
John Hancock: Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement. . . . The very existence of the republics . . . depend much upon the public institutions of religion.
AND THE FRAMER OF THE 1st AMENDMENT - Fisher Ames:
"Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers."
Charles Carroll (signer of the Declaration of Independence) said: "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.
John Witherspoon: (signer of the Declaration of Independence) Whatsoever State among us shall continue to make piety and virtue the standard of public honor will enjoy the greatest inward peace, the greatest national happiness, and in every outward conflict will discover the greatest constitutional strength.
Again, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Those that claim this is not a Christian nation are either completely ignorant ... totally illiterate .... or just plain liars.
This NONSENSE that the founding fathers were not in majority, Christians, are simply repeating the idiotic blather that has become the only intellectual consistency in the leftwing liberal mind.
NOTHING could be further from the truth, and you'd have to be completely incapable of basic fundamental reasoning skills to believe such ridiculous rantings.
It appears that the deniers on the left are indeed the "infectious agent" which can be cited as the primary cause for the moral degradation of our nation, and a heavy contributor to the problems we face as a society.
And this will not change so long as some people INSIST that UP is actually DOWN ... and others seem willing to believe it.
Of course, if one possessed even an ounce of basic common sense, citing the above examples wouldn't be necessary ...
The fact that our founding fathers as well as our modern day misfits swear an oath to the constitution with their right hand placed on a BIBLE should have been your first BIG CLUE.
The fact that our founding fathers as well as our modern day misfits swear an oath to the constitution with their right hand placed on a BIBLE should have been your first BIG CLUE.
not all of our founding fathers did. nor have all of our modern day misfits or the later day misfits.
This country USE TO BE a Christian nation, back then it was growing and flourishing, back then our country was blest, there was always hope!
THEN we started killing babies, it has all been downhill ever since.
Guess what pro choice people?
We haven't hit the bottom yet! but we are going to and it is not going to be pretty.
We are no longer a Christian nation.
We are a me, me, me nation and we will soon find out the price we will pay.
We are no longer blest, we let it get away.
Thank you to all the progressives that have ruined the lives of our children and grandchildren.
You have succeeded to take away everything that was good and we can no longer call our country great.
I hope you are happy.
People have been having abortions well before the forefathers were even born.
The fact that our founding fathers as well as our modern day misfits swear an oath to the constitution with their right hand placed on a BIBLE should have been your first BIG CLUE.
from the constitution:
"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
for anyone to swear on a bible ( any version ) is nice but....... to require it is absolutely unconstitutional.
protestant, catholic, mormon and "other" christian faiths make up about 75% of the US population. a pretty huge chunk and i wouldn't argue that it has an influence. does that make us a "christian nation" ? maybe. maybe not. depends on your definition. if an economic system were to be ascribed to jesus based on his teachings it would be a lot closer to socialism than a free-market capitalist system. if we based our laws around the ten commandments then we'd have to eradicate the first amendment and prohibit advertising.
even with a huge christian population it hasn't really had an outward impact on our architecture, art, clothing, cuisine or other cultural aspects.
so, are we a christian nation ? it's in the eye of the beholder.
I have heard this repeated like a bloody mantra, and no doubt you are simply repeating it, without the foundation to know what you're talking about.
Almost without exception, the founding fathers were Christians of one form or another, and there are THOUSANDS of references that prove this beyond any reasonable doubt, spread out over a vast array of documents and personal statements.
One such statement by Benjamin Franklin (who is considered an Episcopalian-Deist) written in a letter to the President of Yale who iquired as to his views on religion ... Franklin wrote:
As to Jesus of Nazareth , my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...." (Franklin was dying at the time .. and died a month later)
Franklin's statements here acknowledge Jesus as the issuer of the religion and morals, the best the world has ever seen. His questions about Jesus' "divinity" is not unlike a lot of Christians who believe he was the Son of God, and not God himself. Clearly, the "deist" portion that was a common stance among several founding fathers postulated that it was man's responsibility to govern themselves, and that God or the "Creator" would not intervene in man's affairs through acts of miracles ... but this has been misrepresented to mean he didn't believe in the guiding principles of religion or of God. The following should put any such false notion to rest, permanently:
During the constitutional convention, Franklin addressed the assembly with this statement:
In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when present to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings?... I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth - that God governs in the affairs of men.
Now, you'd have to have a very poor grasp of the english language to deny Franklin's own words here that the morals and religion given us by Jesus being the best the world has ever seen was anything other than confirmation that he was indeed a Christian.
But this is just a drop in the ocean ... here's a little more:
John Adams said: "It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue."
and he also said:
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -- Oct.11, 1798 Address to the military
John Quincy Adams: "Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the corner stone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity. . ?"
and HE ALSO SAID
"The law given from Sinai [the 10 commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code; it contained many statutes . . . of universal application-laws essential to the existence of men in society, and most of which have been enacted by every nation which ever professed any code of laws."
Benjamin Franklin said: "And if a a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings [of the Bible], that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
James Madison: "therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service." -- , The Records of the Federal Convention of 1787
Thomas Jefferson: "The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of mankind."
John Hancock: Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement. . . . The very existence of the republics . . . depend much upon the public institutions of religion.
AND THE FRAMER OF THE 1st AMENDMENT - Fisher Ames:
"Our liberty depends on our education, our laws, and habits . . . it is founded on morals and religion, whose authority reigns in the heart, and on the influence all these produce on public opinion before that opinion governs rulers."
Charles Carroll (signer of the Declaration of Independence) said: "Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime & pure, which denounces against the wicked eternal misery, and insured to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments.
John Witherspoon: (signer of the Declaration of Independence) Whatsoever State among us shall continue to make piety and virtue the standard of public honor will enjoy the greatest inward peace, the greatest national happiness, and in every outward conflict will discover the greatest constitutional strength.
Again, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Those that claim this is not a Christian nation are either completely ignorant ... totally illiterate .... or just plain liars.
This NONSENSE that the founding fathers were not in majority, Christians, are simply repeating the idiotic blather that has become the only intellectual consistency in the leftwing liberal mind.
NOTHING could be further from the truth, and you'd have to be completely incapable of basic fundamental reasoning skills to believe such ridiculous rantings.
It appears that the deniers on the left are indeed the "infectious agent" which can be cited as the primary cause for the moral degradation of our nation, and a heavy contributor to the problems we face as a society.
And this will not change so long as some people INSIST that UP is actually DOWN ... and others seem willing to believe it.
Of course, if one possessed even an ounce of basic common sense, citing the above examples wouldn't be necessary ...
The fact that our founding fathers as well as our modern day misfits swear an oath to the constitution with their right hand placed on a BIBLE should have been your first BIG CLUE.
1. You don't have to put your hand on the bible, its just tradition, no where in the oath of office are the words "so help me God" or that you must swear an oath on a book of anykind.
You don't even have to do it at court. "I swear to tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" is the actual oath.
2. You use a Jefferson quote that says "the principals of Jesus". Do you know what principals he's talking about? Love your brother, turn the other cheek, Those who die rich wouldn't get into heaven, that kind of stuff.
Jefferson also said that anyone who believes in the superstitions and miracles of the bible didn't understand reality also.
Jesus Without The Miracles
Thomas Jefferson's Bible and the Gospel of Thomas
ERIK REECE / Harper's Magazine v.311, n.1867 1dec2005
Jesus Without The Miracles
Thomas Jefferson's Bible and the Gospel of Thomas
ERIK REECE / Harper's Magazine v.311, n.1867 1dec2005
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,835,178 times
Reputation: 6438
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
Wow.
Whor really gives a ****?
The people that do. Like me. Then again, hey. Hitler said a lot of things that weren't true and people ate that **** up, man. After a while, they had to eat it, or they got shot.
The early US had Christians, and non Christians, but to label it a "Christian" nation then, now and forever, is just wrong. It's a nation with a good share of Christianity. No one in their right minds wants a particular religion elevated above other beliefs, and non beliefs on a national scale.
As much as I would like to blatantly agree with the title of the thread, I unfortunately cannot...
The OP's original post had some AWESOME points, honestly though.
The only thing that makes this nation a Christian nation is the downright majority of people are Christians. The Christians in this country are just too overpowering, and nobody else will ever get their way until we're like Estonia or the Czech Republic with 90% of the population unaffiliated with religion.
I definitely think we need to remove a lot of Christianity from law, though. Such as:
Abortion legal. End of story. Personal religious beliefs should not dictate other people's lives.
Gay marriage legal. End of story. Personal religious beliefs should not dictate the lives of millions.
"In God we trust." needs to be taken off of money.
"Under God" needs to be taken out of the pledge.
The main argument about these 4 things are all Christian. This nation is a melting pot of many beliefs and shouldn't be dominated by Christianity just because a majority of people practice it. They're screwing over everybody else.
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