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Old 08-11-2010, 12:57 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,359,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
On a lot of manufactured goods the labor content is only about 10% of the price of something like a car. Most of the cost is actually raw materials. Sure, prices would go up some but not skyrocket.
Part of the cost of raw materials is labor.

That is why it pays companies to ship our scrap metal out of the country and then bring it back.

Of course, in the 40's Japan returned our scrap in the from of bombs.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:59 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,591,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
Another idea which people don't often look at on the right but which deserves some serious consideration is the idea of fair trade. In much of Asia child labor is still common practice and its almost impossible to compete against such a low and abusive form of exploitation. Loads of countries make it illegal for workers to organize into unions (China is but one example), often these same countries make it so that workers injured on the job have no rights nor any worker's disability, just like they don't enforce basic environmental laws or work place safety laws. I'm generally a free trade supporter but I do think there should be some rules of the road wrt trade and our laws should punish countries which uses these abuses and give access to our markets to countries which do enforce such laws. That's still free trade but free trade on a level playing field and I suspect that without such abuses being allowed there is a whole lot less incentive for companies to relocate over seas so we can improve our economy and help workers over seas by enacting tariffs on countries which allow things like child labor (or don't enforce child labor laws like India and Pakistan don't). That's a general win even if Nike wants to prevent such a law so they can save $0.20 per shoe made using child labor.
We agree here too. This is an often overlooked variable. We're crazy to think we're going to fare well when the rules are different for everyone. I'm in favor of imposing higher tariffs on goods from such countries, and if you combine that with incentives to bring companies to the US, you begin to even the playing field a little more. We are a huge consumer and have more ability to influence this than we leverage.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:03 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,359,408 times
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One thing I think Obama did that was right was to put tariffs on tires from China.

I had to pay $35 more for tires for my back-hoe trailer and that was fine with me.

No US company made that size.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:05 PM
 
10,545 posts, read 13,591,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
One thing I think Obama did that was right was to put tariffs on tires from China.

I had to pay $35 more for tires for my back-hoe trailer and that was fine with me.

No US company made that size.
A step in the right direction...
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,321,875 times
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I'm actually happy that we're having a pretty factually based discussion on a hard subject here at CDF. Just when I was about to give up on the place it pleasantly surprises me.

I do think there are reasonable people on both the left and the right which can find common ground if only we could get beyond the partisan charactures the two sides draw for each other. Lord knows the country badly needs such common sense.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:11 PM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,772,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
We agree here too. This is an often overlooked variable. We're crazy to think we're going to fare well when the rules are different for everyone. I'm in favor of imposing higher tariffs on goods from such countries, and if you combine that with incentives to bring companies to the US, you begin to even the playing field a little more. We are a huge consumer and have more ability to influence this than we leverage.
Higher tarrifs is not the right idea. While I sympathize and agree something must be done, all you will do is cause a trade war and cause "world GDP" to drop, which is honestly a larger hole to fix then just ours.


The real problem is China shooting themselves in the foot long term by pegging the Yuan to the dollar. Basically the trade deficit has to be made up at some point in "smart" economics. It is a promise for future productivity to be returned, and that is why we have floating currencies to help balance that. China refuses and in the long run will have two possibilities:
  1. Stay the course and force our currency to inflate, with theirs on the coat tales. Makes the overall debt they hold worth less, or even worthless, if they try to apply it to other countries.
  2. Unpeg suddenly and create hyper-inflation/deflation in the two largest economies while they suddenly rebalance out. Again makes the debt they hold worth(less) due to the fall in the dollar.
So China is basically giving us free productivity by not letting the currency float, not the other way around. While it will hurt us badly when this is corrected, it will hurt them more (unless we just default then that may hurt us more, but they won't go unscathed).

Only solution is for China to slowly unpeg and boost consumer demand (not more exports) in its own country for products OUTSIDE their country. Favoring their own companies is still creating a disaster currency wise.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:13 PM
 
Location: NC
1,672 posts, read 1,772,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
One thing I think Obama did that was right was to put tariffs on tires from China.

I had to pay $35 more for tires for my back-hoe trailer and that was fine with me.

No US company made that size.
Yes, but that was from China "dumping" tires which is very destabilizing. The tariff is more meant to make the price "fair" then to force people to buy American (which is what most people argue for when then think tariffs).
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:21 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,359,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maabus1999 View Post
Yes, but that was from China "dumping" tires which is very destabilizing. The tariff is more meant to make the price "fair" then to force people to buy American (which is what most people argue for when then think tariffs).
I will always pay more to buy American.

We just don't make much.

Fittings to hook up water lines is the one the makes me mad.

Just can not find them made here.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,207,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
Honestly, I think he is right. The most responsible thing to do is to let all the tax breaks expire. BTW for the reality impared neo-cons who keep claiming tax cuts pay for themselves here is what Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan had to say today:



Here is the transcript for today's meet the press: Aug. 1: Mullen, Bloomberg, Greenspan, Rendell - Meet the Press - Transcripts - msnbc.com

Plus I have an article on it here:
Alan Greenspan: Extending Bush Tax Cuts Without Paying For Them Could Be 'Disastrous'


the most responsible thing to do would be to repeal the 16th Amendment, fire all IRS workers, do away with 95% of the federal budget and fire all those workers too.

time for all those federal employees to go out and get real jobs and stop leeching off of the american taxpayers.
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Old 08-11-2010, 01:29 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,359,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeywrenching View Post
the most responsible thing to do would be to repeal the 16th Amendment, fire all IRS workers, do away with 95% of the federal budget and fire all those workers too.

time for all those federal employees to go out and get real jobs and stop leeching off of the american taxpayers.
LOL The health care bill adds to the workforce of the IRS.

http://thelibertyjournal.com/2010/03...rance-mandate/
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