Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-05-2010, 03:29 PM
 
31 posts, read 15,472 times
Reputation: 25

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Obama is going for full-fledged communism? Please!

No one is starving because they are too lazy to go pick readily available produce themselves. Get real.

Yes, absolutely, Obama is attacking the very foundations of capitalism. He understands the quickest and surest way to supplant it with the maoist agenda is to destroy it first. i once believed that capitalism was a great steel ball and no matter how weak or howincompetent the politician they could hammer and hameer and they might dent it but they could never crack it. Now, on top of everyhting 40 of the wolds billionaires have agreed to give half their fortune to charity. Instead of traditional job creation, which i will tell you once again, is the only true social aid that has ever existed that is worth a nod, th eworlds billionaires are going to squander their fortunes to meals on wheels for the able bodied.

The blindness here is cold and dark.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-05-2010, 03:37 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,936,779 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by carribean joe View Post
Yes, absolutely, Obama is attacking the very foundations of capitalism. He understands the quickest and surest way to supplant it with the maoist agenda is to destroy it first. i once believed that capitalism was a great steel ball and no matter how weak or howincompetent the politician they could hammer and hameer and they might dent it but they could never crack it. Now, on top of everyhting 40 of the wolds billionaires have agreed to give half their fortune to charity. Instead of traditional job creation, which i will tell you once again, is the only true social aid that has ever existed that is worth a nod, th eworlds billionaires are going to squander their fortunes to meals on wheels for the able bodied.

The blindness here is cold and dark.
Wait, you're complaining that people who possess more wealth than they could spend in 5 lifetimes are going to donate their money to charity?

Can you defend the claim that the charities to which they are donating are simply "meals on wheels for the able bodied"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,230,375 times
Reputation: 6242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waianaegirl View Post
Their end game is to be told what to do, and how to live.
Yup. Every time someone relates on these forums a governmental abuse of power, or corruption, or overtaxation, some Government-Lover will leap up and claim (1) it's not true, (2) if it is true, the government is perfectly justified no matter what they do, and/or (3) the teller of the tale is evil, bad, a rabble-rouser, making it all up, etc. The Government-Lovers then refuse to put the people they disagree with on their "Ignore Lists," since then they'd miss the opportunity to jump in and--while knowing nothing about the situation being described--go through Steps (1) through (3) above.

Why Americans want to defend a Federal Government that has wiped out all economic activity unless by the favored Mega-Corporations, and spent/borrowed more money than the next generations will even earn, while returning not a single penny to the productive members of society, I'll never know.

Why, as you say, Americans (adults, no less) want to be told what to do, and how to live, is also incomprehensible. But liberals definitely do. Apparently they've never heard that "Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely." And they continue to hand over absolute power to the people in government, who are specifically NOT the type of people who should be given any power at all.

Will the Patriots continue to allow the liberals to build ever-larger, more expensive, more abuse government? Stay tuned....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 04:06 PM
 
4,049 posts, read 5,023,359 times
Reputation: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by carribean joe View Post
Yes, absolutely, Obama is attacking the very foundations of capitalism. He understands the quickest and surest way to supplant it with the maoist agenda is to destroy it first. i once believed that capitalism was a great steel ball and no matter how weak or howincompetent the politician they could hammer and hameer and they might dent it but they could never crack it.
What the hell are you talking about?

Please describe in detail how "Obama is attacking the very foundations of capitalism."

Quote:
Now, on top of everyhting 40 of the wolds billionaires have agreed to give half their fortune to charity. Instead of traditional job creation, which i will tell you once again, is the only true social aid that has ever existed that is worth a nod, th eworlds billionaires are going to squander their fortunes to meals on wheels for the able bodied.
I've got no problem with job creation, nor do I have problems with charity. You're beating a straw man again, just like when you pretend that all liberals are communists and maoists seeking to destroy capitalism.

Quote:
The blindness here is cold and dark.
You might try opening your eyes then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 05:00 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,936,779 times
Reputation: 1010
Almost every single argument made by Right-wingers in last few pages has relied on a straw man, it's pretty laughable.

I run in pretty strongly Leftist circles and I've never heard anyone state that they wanted government to run every aspect of their lives.

Instead, these people typically want health care, a decent education, and safe living conditions to be available to everyone, regardless of their station in life.

By the way, regarding health care, you complain so much about people being forced to buy the government plan. I would prefer if there was a public option, but you'd probably hate that anyways. Let's look at our current system, where medical costs have become the number one cause of bankruptcy in our country.

SOURCE:
Harvard study finds medical bills push many into bankruptcy (http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2005/02/03_bankruptcy.php - broken link)

and

Medical Bills Leading Cause of Bankruptcy, Harvard Study Finds

Our health care expenditures are some of the highest in the world

SOURCE: Per Capita Health Expenditures by Country, 2007 — Infoplease.com

Yet we have shorter life expectancies than countries that expend far less (per capita) than we do.

SOURCE: List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Additionally, my friends (and I) want our income inequality to not be almost as high as it's ever been at in our nation's history.

SOURCE:
http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-...comes-2008.pdf

and



and




They don't want the average citizen to have to pay more taxes, they want the people who are rich to pay more taxes, and not out of a desire to simply have what the rich have, but because they think that it's better to increase the standard of living for those with the least than to allow those who already control the vast majority of the nation's wealth to increase their dominance over American society. The rich used to pay much higher taxes than they do now, yet now when people speak about taxation it is as if the government is coming to one's door with a pistol and robbing you of your savings.

Here (for the second time): are our top tax rates



Go check the last time income inequality was this high, and you'll see that it was right before the great depression.

Speaking of fiscal policy, most of us want our government to stop its expensive policy of hyper-incarceration, especially given the fact that enormous numbers of our incarcerated are non-violent drug offenders, who could be rehabilitated in drug courts instead of turned into permanent criminals due to their imprisonment in our overcrowded, violent, racially combative prisons.

Quote:
Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges. [12]
Incarceration in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and



Additionally, we want our government to stop waging expensive, unnecessary wars like those in Iraq and Afghanistan which consume a vast portion of that taxpayer money that some of you all are so concerned about.



and

Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

U.S. Military Spending, 1946–2009 — Infoplease.com

We want less collusion between big business and our government, which would be lobbying reform, campaign finance reform, and a whole set of measures which would increase transparency with regard to our politicans dealings with businessmen.

We disagree with the bailout of the banks, and find our President to be a disappointing crony of the financial organizations which have militated so hard to increasing the ridiculous stratification of wealth in our country and which play such a huge role in our current administration, see the appointment of Tim Geithner for an example.

Read this report by Citibank and tell me how it makes you feel:

Citigroup Oct 16, 2005 Plutonomy Report Part 1

We want our government to serve the average citizen, not the wealthy power elites as it does now, and that doesn't mean more control over the lives of citizens, it means for more of the basic services needed to have a shot at success to be provided for those who do not have it now.

So many of you have these absurd ideas of what your opponents believe and choose to put words into their mouths instead of trying to invite real dialogue. I've shared what I and the folks I know who think like me ACTUALLY think, and I've provided sources to back up my opinion. The dishonest argumentation that occurs on this forum from many is extremely boring and indicative, to me, of people who haven't actually thought out their positions with much rigor. I challenge all of you who seem so bent on caricaturing the position of others to actually present your argument with as much actual data and information as I have provided.

note: mods please do not delete my images, there are no copyright violations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 05:26 PM
 
31 posts, read 15,472 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
Wait, you're complaining that people who possess more wealth than they could spend in 5 lifetimes are going to donate their money to charity?

Can you defend the claim that the charities to which they are donating are simply "meals on wheels for the able bodied"?
Charity is a good thing. I suspect I give more to charity than the average. What I am saying is that it is foolish to give to charity when you could be using that kind of money to build factories, etc. to provide jobs. Then it is more than a one time gimme it is provision for life. The billionaires are copping to the same destructive error as Obama. A one time hand out is help for a day or two. JOB is the answer not a hand out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 05:33 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,936,779 times
Reputation: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by carribean joe View Post
Charity is a good thing. I suspect I give more to charity than the average. What I am saying is that it is foolish to give to charity when you could be using that kind of money to build factories, etc. to provide jobs. Then it is more than a one time gimme it is provision for life. The billionaires are copping to the same destructive error as Obama. A one time hand out is help for a day or two. JOB is the answer not a hand out.
Job creation is a short-term solution compared to efforts that will fund medical research to cure disease and allow people to live healthier lives and programs that allow poor people to gain access to better education, which are two of the things the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation do.

I challenge you AGAIN on your claim that these charities are akin to Meals on Wheels for the Able Bodied. You imply that these billionaires are squandering their money by giving short-term handouts instead of establishing scholarship funds, building schools, and funding health programs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 06:23 PM
 
2,125 posts, read 1,936,779 times
Reputation: 1010
Also, you spelled Caribbean wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Greenville, SC
5,238 posts, read 8,771,854 times
Reputation: 2645
Quote:
Originally Posted by carribean joe View Post
Yes, absolutely, Obama is attacking the very foundations of capitalism. He understands the quickest and surest way to supplant it with the maoist agenda is to destroy it first. i once believed that capitalism was a great steel ball and no matter how weak or howincompetent the politician they could hammer and hameer and they might dent it but they could never crack it. Now, on top of everyhting 40 of the wolds billionaires have agreed to give half their fortune to charity. Instead of traditional job creation, which i will tell you once again, is the only true social aid that has ever existed that is worth a nod, th eworlds billionaires are going to squander their fortunes to meals on wheels for the able bodied.

The blindness here is cold and dark.
The billionaire who is giving away the most of his money (99%) is giving it to pharmaceutical research, so that we can cure disease. Is that wrong to you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2010, 06:48 PM
 
31 posts, read 15,472 times
Reputation: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by dunks_galore View Post
Also, you spelled Caribbean wrong.
That is funny, so many times on here I have read people who resort to spell checking when they have no valid reasonable points of debate. A communist can defend a position. A person can defend whether or not a cow pie smells or not but it does not change the fact that it is a cow pie.

Medical research will die under Obama care. To beleive otherwise is a most foolish conclusion. In this country poor people have always had access to better education or at least this generation ,-for sure. we hav ethrown billions at education and those who choose to learn learn and those that choose to live in deprived circumstances continue their lot.

You are not going to throw money at diseased soicialization and create a cure. That can only come from within. When minority fathers reclaim or even claim their children, when young men and women find more self esteem in books and self improvement than they do in drugs, sex, and alcohol, when deprived and depraved society respects civility and and self respect over narcisissm and hedonism, then society will evolve at that level.

Civil society continues to evolve for positive socialization reasons, where mothers and fathers care for their offspring. Society continues to devolve in the absense of these traits. Blaming the rich, blaming the self motivated, is not going to change these negative circumstances. Life is really very simple and no manner or approach to rationalization of depravity and even down right evil is going to alleviate that self perpetuating condition. Gates or Buffet or Mother Teresa cannot do it alone with all their resources. Success and improvement comes from within.

Ultimately we choose our own circumstance. Certainly there are those that are born to this earth that do not have the inate ability to rise above a negative circumstance or even the inate ability to preserve a good circumstance. This wonderful country provides a safety net for those in that circumstance. It should not feel guilty for not providing everything that misfortune of genetics or socialization cannot provide. It never will under any system or no matter how much money is set aside to that end. To believe otherwise is pure folly.

To try and establish a system that aims at promoting the lowest common denominater will not raise the circumstance of the unfortunate and self incriminating in will only serve to lower the circumstance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:57 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top