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Rand Paul wants to remove all workplace regulation aaaah! Nevermind that's technically not his position but if it was...
What would we do without OSHA! Oops here's a chart showing workplace fatalities before and after OSHA was created (h/t John Stossel):
What HAVOC! Wait a minute...no noticeable difference....you don't say
How is it possible that when there was the ANARCHY of no OSHA that incidents still declined? And there's no dramatic drop you'd expect after this ANARCHY was removed
Could it be that workers and employers still care now as they did before the 70's about the safety of the workplace and don't feel like working in death traps, or killing employees?
Liberals ar just looking for any excuse to trash a liberty loving candidate.
The oil spill in the gulf shut down 1/3 of the nations fishing industry. Thats bad for the country. It effects money, food supply, health of many millions of people. Its not a "move away situation" when you lose one third of the nations fishing. That you don't get back until things are cleaned up, and maybe many decades later.
A mine collapse that shuts down one mine out of many thousands, and only effects a handful of families, is not a national problem.
I have no problem with states regulating their own industry.
As I said also, I would expect power to be given back to mining unions. The Federal government shouldn't be allowed to step in and make them go back to work at that point either.
So, you're using a scale of disaster, not how individuals are affected but how many are affected. I guess you think people are more useful as a collective than as an individual.
Why is it okay for states to regulate its industry? If anything, I would like the federal government today to regulate the gas drilling industry that is creating a hell of a mess in my neighborhood (Flower Mound, TX). The state government is run by corporate shills and they couldn't care less about the ecology.
Shouldn't oil industry debacle be also, then, regulated and handled by individual states and be none of federal government's issue?
Quite obviously the Mine Safety Act and OSHA are guided by the Commerce Clause.
As for your logic that mine safety has nothing to do with national interest perhaps you are right, we should act as every state is like China. Each state can enact of fail to enact mine safety as it deems fit. Of course mines that operate with minimum or no regulatory control are able to operate much cheaply, offering a, shall we say, competitive advantage just as China does today. Now some consider using employees as expendable fodder, like China, believe that such unfair competitive advantages shouldn't be allowed. But hey, they just don't believe in capitalism.
Quite true, Massey isn't holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to go down into the mines to work. In fact this is one of those classic Econ 100 axioms. The only problem with such axioms is that the model requires certain assumptions, one of which is that workers work with perfect information. Information that allows them to know that there are other job opportunities, one's in which they are financially able to move to and without any apprehension about losing family ties and support.
One, last thing, the assumption also ignores the long and exceedingly violent history of labor relations in the mining industry, when miners who refused to work in dangerous mines, or without adequate pay and who sought to better their work conditions were gunned down in the streets of towns like Harlan and Matewan.
What was I saying about guns... never mind.
Thats why I said that the Unions should be re-powered so to speak. Currently, the federal government can be asked to come in and end a strike, and I disagree with that. If the strike was over safety costs, thats an honest strike, and what I think Unions should be for anyway.
And its been documented, that a happy worker, is a productive worker. If you force someone to work in a mine with no safety regulations, they won't work as hard, the mine won't be as productive as the one down the road that has better regulations, and happier workers.
Thats classic econ to.
And the violence in the past, is in the past. No way that kind of thing would happen today, I think.
No way of knowing really, until its tried.
BTW, laws are technically "part of the Constitution" as they can be ruled unconstitutional. But, if courts have tried cases, and deem that they are indeed constitutional, far be it for me to question a judges learned experience.
As far as workers knowing the situation in the mine. Who do they hire as mine safety experts? Miners. Who is on the news saying "I told you so" after a collapse? Miners.
So, you're using a scale of disaster, not how individuals are affected but how many are affected. I guess you think people are more useful as a collective than as an individual.
Why is it okay for states to regulate its industry? If anything, I would like the federal government today to regulate the gas drilling industry that is creating a hell of a mess in my neighborhood (Flower Mound, TX). The state government is run by corporate shills and they couldn't care less about the ecology.
Shouldn't oil industry debacle be also, then, regulated and handled by individual states and be none of federal government's issue?
The federal government is for the collective, not the individual. They protect individual freedoms, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
However, perhaps someone wants to work in a mine with less regulation, for more money. I'm not going to tell them no.
I give up. I cannot tell the sarcasm from the serious in this thread. Does anyone really believe that eliminating mine, along with all the other, safety regulation is a good thing? Coal mining is a very dangerous trade when done correctly. It is deadly when it is not. The fools on this thread that claim “other jobs are available” have no idea of how a small town dominated by the mine actually operate. Mining is the only good paying job in town and the mining company controls the town politics to prevent any new industry from locating anywhere close enough to compete for the work force.
Then there is the advocate for child labor. I grew up in a family that ran a small business and I was working from 6 to 14 years old. I did not get paid but if I didn’t get the chores done I did not get fed. I had very little freedom that I did not steal from my drunken step father. I didn’t play base ball with the neighborhood kids because I was working. I know what child labor is about and I would not wish it on anyone but its advocates.
Both Ron and Rand Paul are both ideologs and incredibly callus people if they think their way is the Right Way. They are also fools if they think anyone, but a very small and equally mean minority, agree with them.
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I love how you just all skip my chart showwing how OCHA hasn't done crap and is a useless law - repealing it will do nothing to affect worker safety while removing some government beauracracy. Just because the government says a law protects workers doesnt neccessarily make it true.
Quote:
Both Ron and Rand Paul are both ideologs and incredibly callus people if they think their way is the Right Way. They are also fools if they think anyone, but a very small and equally mean minority, agree with them.
Newsflash buddy, but more people identify themselves as tea party members than liberals in this country.
I give up. I cannot tell the sarcasm from the serious in this thread. Does anyone really believe that eliminating mine, along with all the other, safety regulation is a good thing? Coal mining is a very dangerous trade when done correctly. It is deadly when it is not. The fools on this thread that claim “other jobs are available” have no idea of how a small down dominated by the mine actually operate. Mining is the only good paying job in town and the mining company controls the town politics to prevent any new industry from locating anywhere close enough to compete for the work force.
Then there is the advocate for child labor. I grew up in a family that ran a small business and I was working from 6 to 14 years old. I did not get paid but if I didn’t get the chores done I did not get fed. I had very little freedom that I did not steal from my drunken step father. I didn’t play base ball with the neighborhood kids because I was working. I know what child labor is about and I would not wish it on anyone but its advocates.
Both Ron and Rand Paul are both ideologs and incredibly callus people if they think their way is the Right Way. They are also fools if they think anyone, but a very small and equally mean minority, agree with them.
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I'm not being sarcastic. I'm as real as it gets. These are the thoughts I have on the subject.
I'm not sure that removing federal regulations from mining is a good or bad thing, I feel there is only one way to find out.
Did you not look at the chart? Mines were becoming safer even without federal regulation because *shock* companies realized it was better for them to make sure their workers were safe and healthy even WITHOUT the government telling them so.
The way technology has evolved, I would trust most companies to make their mines as safe as possible with or without regulations. Believe me, news stories about the death of miners is not good for the bottom line.
Then I suggest you grab a shovel and go to work in an unregulated coal mine. Good luck.
I chose to get an education, so I didn't have to make that choice.
Others are free to do the same.
As I said, no one is putting a gun to anyones head, and forcing them down that hole. Money compels them to do that, but its a choice, not forced labor.
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