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Old 08-10-2010, 09:01 PM
 
Location: FL
20,702 posts, read 12,451,492 times
Reputation: 5452

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
Poorly, if you look at the facts. Basically the US is ahead of every other country for non-lifestyle dependant medical diagnosis outcome.
That wasn't including the people that die because they don't have insurance to go to the doctor to get a diagnosis. In Canada they don't have to worry about that.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,209,612 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrover View Post
To those who say that our health care should not be a for-profit business, what exactly would be the incentive for prospective doctors or other health professionals to invest vast sums of money to obtain a medical degree? What would be the incentive for new hospitals to be built? What would be the incentive for new drugs to be developed? In the absence of a free market to incentivize all these elements of health care, we would likely resemble a third world country in that area. It is the expectation of profit that drives everything new and innovative, that attracts the best and brightest and without it we would not have the world-class health care system that we currently have. Can anyone honestly say that if doctors were paid no more than teachers or other important (though underpaid) professions, would anyone opt to spend 8 years of their lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars to take home a teacher's paycheck? I think not.
There are plenty of doctors working for Kaiser, which is non-profit. NP doesn't mean you can't pay someone a salary, even a very high salary. No one is suggesting doctors make no more than teachers.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Hades
2,126 posts, read 2,374,022 times
Reputation: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
I pay $800 per month for one drug for my ill wife who also takes many others for her condition. This drug is not a new fangled, high science drug in any way shape or form. The reason it is high because the manufacturer can charge this rate. We have no insurance anymore because my wife at a relative young age became ill. I can go on and on about why this and that but why bother because it seems it's pointless to explain to some people. Simply put our system is decaying at a rapid rate and is not sustainable.
Sorry for your situation and I second the notion (the reality) that our system is not sustainable. Those who argue that it is superior will be in for a sad surprise when someone they know falls ill.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Southcentral Kansas
44,882 posts, read 33,137,160 times
Reputation: 4269
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Its mandatory for Medicare Part A (hospital). If you choose not to take Medicare Part B (physician) because you are still employed, I think you pay a % penalty for every year after 65 that you have opted out - when you opt back in when you become unemployed.

The majority of one's medical costs occur at the end of
their life, unless you have a hereditary illness, etc. and
they usually end up on Medicaid or Medicare anyways, because they can not sustain the cost of care.

That's why you can't really compare cost analysis from
private insurance and medicare - it's like comparing apples to dried prunes One just needs a spritz of water to freshen it up, the other A LOT of water to plump it up

I really think Medicare could work for everyone Keep the
doctors - get rid of the insurance companies. Our health
should not be a for profit business anyways
How much do you pay in Medicare taxes? I know about what I pay after nearly 13 years on it but do you?
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:46 AM
 
3,059 posts, read 8,248,596 times
Reputation: 3281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrover View Post
A recent "Investor's Business Daily" article provided very interesting statistics from a survey by the United Nations International Health Organization.

Percentage of men and women who survived a cancer five years after diagnosis:
U.S. 65%
England 46%
Canada 42%
Gee. Those stats don't look at all suspicious Canada has one of the best survival rates in the world. And it isn't 42%. Nor is the USA's rate as low as 65%. When someone is trying to sell you a farm, take a closer look at the sheds out back. In this case, oh, I dunno, healthcare for profit????

Canada gets high ranking for cancer survival rates - CTV News
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:57 AM
 
3,059 posts, read 8,248,596 times
Reputation: 3281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redrover View Post
To those who say that our health care should not be a for-profit business, what exactly would be the incentive for prospective doctors or other health professionals to invest vast sums of money to obtain a medical degree? ...
You could ask the health care professionals in 19 of the other top 20 industrialised nations in the world, all of which have national healthcare.

Do we not need healthcare professionals whose motivation and incentive is caring for people - not the love of money!? Incidentally, right around the world, healthcare professionals are amongst the highest earners in society - and national healthcare doesn't change that. Doctors and nurses are esteemed professionals and earn a good living throughout the world.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:25 AM
 
2,016 posts, read 5,190,971 times
Reputation: 1878
All of us who are working and paying into the system are paying for Medicare, Medicaid, VA, and other government health programs. The ironic thing is that a good number of workers who are paying into these systems are not insured or underinsured. We're supposed to take this status quo and shut up while listening to right-wing propoganda meisters surpassing the likes of Josef Goebells spew their lies and mass hysteria on TV and radio. It is really astounding the level of ignorance that is pervasive around this country; why you would want to be taken advantage of and then keep asking for more of the same.

P.S. - if I hear more person scream, "but I worked for it" (in regards to Medicare), I will probably scream. I am absolutely sure that not even one Medicare recipient in America has paid a fraction of what they are currently receiving under Medicare (considering the astronomical cost of healthcare in this country). Once you reach a certain age threshold, you are eligible to be covered under Medicare. (You can also receive Medicare if you are disabled and under the age of 65, as well as people of all ages with End-Stage Renal Disease - permanent kidney failure treated with dialysis or a transplant). What this says is that Medicare has no qualifier of someone EVER having to work and pay into the system, yet they can take out of it if they meet eligibility requirements. Yet the right wingers love to talk about self-sufficiency and being productive, etc. Hardly.

So back to Universal Health Care, we already have universal health care in the states; the only difference between us and other countries who have UHC is that only select groups of people get to enjoy the benefits. The rest of us can fend for ourselves. Apparently, this is "American."

Since UHC is so "bad", then please discontinue Medicare, Medicaid, VA care, and the government health care system that Congress enjoys. If one has to suffer, then we should all suffer. Since we hear crickets chirping in the night on that one....we know that scenario will never happen.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:41 AM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,609,873 times
Reputation: 14732
you know, i thought this was going to be a troll thread. but, i agree. in some ways, our healthcare system is exceptional. it is still fundamentally broken, though.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,257 posts, read 64,077,267 times
Reputation: 73913
Yes, le roi, we should try to fix the things that are broken, but we really do have an excellent system and resources that are unparalleled. People who just want to scrap it in favor of european or canadian models have no concept of how things actually run. All they can see is this magical wonderland where they don't get a bill...and they can't see past that.

I mean, it's no great secret that most of the medical community is against Obamacare, but that doesn't seem to matter, does it? And it couldn't be because we know how ridiculous our government is to deal with when it comes to medicare/medicaid (and oh, god, the VA!) and how the quality will nosedive?

People think healthcare should not be for profit. But they forget that profit = innovation, technology, customer service, resources. Just go to a govt run hospital and then a private boutique one and see the vast difference.

There are things that need to be fixed, the solutions are out there, and they don't involve government takeover. That should be the last resort for anything.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Texas
44,257 posts, read 64,077,267 times
Reputation: 73913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna7 View Post

Since UHC is so "bad", then please discontinue Medicare, Medicaid, VA care, and the government health care system that Congress enjoys. If one has to suffer, then we should all suffer. Since we hear crickets chirping in the night on that one....we know that scenario will never happen.
There's a difference between taking care of the old and disabled and handing out freebies to the able-bodied workers. And as far as I'm concerned, those who did pay into medicare their entire lives deserve every cent of the care they get.

The culture in this country is that people don't take care of their elderly like they do in other countries. As long as that is the culture, we have to do so as a society.
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