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Old 08-10-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,319 posts, read 18,747,810 times
Reputation: 5764

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Many of his followers are leaving the ship. Now it is sad to see Obama's team is trying to blame Biden and his too many Youtube moments for Obama's decline in the polls. Wonder when they will turn and face the real reason for the decline?
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:39 AM
 
720 posts, read 691,276 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity View Post
When I see someone use this word, anything else they say - no matter how profound or intelligent - will fall on deaf ears.

It's a highly offensive word to some. I would urge you not to use it again.
I agree,
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Yes, the stimulus didn't work.

Right now we are facing a no win situation, if we keep military spending at its current levels.

We can't lower interest rates, in fact, we may have to raise them to continue to encourage foreign investment. We can't raise taxes on most Americans, because it'll slow the economy even more. And we have a real unemployment rate of around 15%.

We didn't get into that mess in the last two years, that pile of crap comes from decades of failed economic policies, exacerbated by a policy of keeping taxes low, and the idea that the consumer spends their money in the best way.

I'm going to break with both Democratic and Republicans here. BANKS are the best place for money. They have been trying to keep capitol moving, by lowering interest rates. However, with a savings rate below 5%, there is no money in banks to back up the bets they are making. When savings rates are up, credit improves, because banks can make bets. They have a interest in making wise bets, because its good business for them. the consumer is happy to spend their money on needless crap, that does nothing for the economy, or the credit market.

Thats my opinion, its just the way I'm seeing things. When people saved 10% or higher amounts of their checks weekly, the economy was in a much better shape. Sure, it didn't boom like it has in periods over the last twenty years, but it grew, slow and steady. Thats the way we need to do things, slow and steady.

That, and decrease our military spending. We spend 2 billion dollars a month in Afghanistan. Could you imagine if that money stayed here at home? The entire GDP of Afghanistan is less than we spend in a month there. Lets just give them half the money we are spending, and leave. Let them buy their own military.


Unless US banks are loaning money to foreigners, they don't create wealth within the United States. Our greatest economic problem is that we continue to be a net importer of goods and services. Everything else we are experiencing is a symptom of that disease. What we are doing is essentially the same as planning our finances while we don't have a sustainable income. Only exports matter. Until we have a national income again, we are selling the nation to foreigners and temporarily postponing the inevitable collapse of the economy and the currency.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,013 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
Well the article starts out about that whole 8% chart, something that was abandoned even before the Stimulus was actually passed, as it was based off data known at the time the chart was created.
Quote:
Back in early January, when Barack Obama was still President-elect, two of his chief economic advisers — leading proponents of a stimulus bill — predicted that the passage of a large economic-aid package would boost the economy and keep the unemployment rate below 8%. It hasn't quite worked out that way. Last month, the jobless rate in the U.S. hit 9.5%, the highest level it has reached since 1983.
The two advisers who wrote the paper, Christina Romer and Jared Bernstein, went on to land key jobs in the Obama Administration. Romer is the head of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, and Bernstein is the chief economist and economic-policy adviser to Vice President Joe Biden. And the stimulus bill that both economists championed became law in mid-February. What has not come to pass, however, is the boom in job creation that Romer and Bernstein predicted.
That was reported on July 14, 2009.
Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan: Failing by Its Own Measure - TIME

Given that the 8% unemployment chart was touted wide and far in January and the stimulus bill was passed the very next month in February, exactly when was it abandoned?
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:22 AM
 
159 posts, read 144,449 times
Reputation: 118
Keynesian? I thought it was a new type of economic theory being used called Kenyanism.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Sango, TN
24,868 posts, read 24,388,397 times
Reputation: 8672
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
Unless US banks are loaning money to foreigners, they don't create wealth within the United States. Our greatest economic problem is that we continue to be a net importer of goods and services. Everything else we are experiencing is a symptom of that disease. What we are doing is essentially the same as planning our finances while we don't have a sustainable income. Only exports matter. Until we have a national income again, we are selling the nation to foreigners and temporarily postponing the inevitable collapse of the economy and the currency.
Yes they do.

They give loans to small businesses and larger ones, who create jobs, that sell to foreign countries and investors.

They do make money.

I agree that we need to start exporting, not keeping the importation going. However, the only way to do that is through innovation, and investment in small business.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,642 posts, read 26,378,527 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity View Post
When I see someone use this word, anything else they say - no matter how profound or intelligent - will fall on deaf ears.

It's a highly offensive word to some. I would urge you not to use it again.


DEAF?

As in deaf and dumb?

Apparently you think "anything profound or intelligent" is lost on the hearing impaired!
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:38 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,123,773 times
Reputation: 9409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
Well the article starts out about that whole 8% chart, something that was abandoned even before the Stimulus was actually passed, as it was based off data known at the time the chart was created. That was before the last couple months of Bush's job numbers were known (in which we were losing jobs at 700,000 a month), it was done prior to the 4th quarter 08 putrid earnings figures were released, it was done prior to the 4th quarter 08 GDP disaster findings were released. No one was talking about 8% once all of that stuff came out.

Also, I somehow doubt the Washington Examiner would have pegged this editorial if it was around at this point in Reagan's Presidency. A year and a half into the Reagan administration, unemployment was higher than it is now (and would then go even higher)
From my perspective, most everything you stated here is that of an apologist. Lets be clear: The "unknown" data and numbers that you base your entire argument on are well within the purview of those economic officials that Barack Obama brought on board. While no economist will ever be 100% correct, if Obama's team weren't able to put a finger on this economic calamity, then they never should have been hired. And its obvious that they weren't able to handle the size and scope of this recession judging by the condition that we're in trillions of dollars later. It may be a time to quit apologizing and start owning up to the failures of this Administration.

PS...I'd like to see some evidence that the 8% Chart was abandoned. From my recollection, that was how the stimuli was sold to the American people.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:52 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,013 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroGuyDC View Post
From my perspective, most everything you stated here is that of an apologist. Lets be clear: The "unknown" data and numbers that you base your entire argument on are well within the purview of those economic officials that Barack Obama brought on board. While no economist will ever be 100% correct, if Obama's team weren't able to put a finger on this economic calamity, then they never should have been hired. And its obvious that they weren't able to handle the size and scope of this recession judging by the condition that we're in trillions of dollars later. It may be a time to quit apologizing and start owning up to the failures of this Administration.


Romer, one of the chief authors of that 8% chart, is out as of Sept. 3rd, by the way.
Quote:
Romer, 51, is one of the nation's leading scholars of macroeconomic history and an expert on the Great Depression. She was tapped by Obama to serve as chief economist for the White House in November 2008 as the newly elected president was devising a response to a global economic panic.
Romer was instrumental in crafting the $862 billion economic stimulus package that Obama signed shortly after being sworn into office. She co-wrote a paper that predicted the stimulus would prevent unemployment rates from rising above 8 percent, a stance that has come under attack by Republicans who call the package a failure.
Christina Romer, chair of Obama's Council of Economic Advisers, to resign

Wow. If she's a 'leading scholar' and screwed up so badly, we're in serious trouble. Perhaps Obama should stop recruiting from heavily liberal university staff. The cloistered ivory tower crowd isn't panning out too well.

Quote:
PS...I'd like to see some evidence that the 8% Chart was abandoned. From my recollection, that was how the stimuli was sold to the American people.
Exactly. I already asked Smash for evidence; no response so far. Since the assertion is obviously false, I'd like to know where Smash got that 'talking point' from, or if it is just made up.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Hoosierville
17,411 posts, read 14,642,907 times
Reputation: 11611
Quote:
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
DEAF?

As in deaf and dumb?

Apparently you think "anything profound or intelligent" is lost on the hearing impaired!

What the hell are you talking about?
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