The Difference between Muslim and Muslin. (Mexicans, nationalist, terrorist, elect)

[Bluefox]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Prior to 9.11 I doubt that most Americans could tell the difference between a Muslim, a follower of the prophet Mohammed and a piece of Muslin, the fabric. Suddenly every Tom, Dick and Newt is a expert on the Qu'ran, Islam in general and Muslims in particular.

Why am I so skeptical? Islam is practiced by 1.4 billion people world wide divided into two major divisions with, by some estimates, another 150 subdivisions each with its own view and interpretation of the major books of Islam...

Which brings us to the underlying documents of Islamic belief.

Not only do Muslims rely on the Tanakh, and the New Testament, but like Judaism, relies on its main text, the Qu'ran, and the Hadith, but but also the Tafsir, the Sirah, and much like the Talmud an ongoing series of documented debates regarding the meaning of their holy texts.

So, what I would like to know, is how in god's green earth can so many people suddenly rise up out of nowhere feeling that they can pontificate about what Islam is as a religion much less make commentaries on what Muslims believe?

Forgive me for my incompetence, but I am having major issues understanding your position.

(1) Who are these people that claim to be experts on Islam, and why are their claims significant? I guess I just need some more particularity. Personal observations? Something in the media? Just need some context.

(2) People in the US and other countries learn about Islam through many ways. Eastern religion classes in college or high school (where I first studied the religion), perhaps they have a friend who is Muslim. My grandpa, who is a devout Christian, owns a copy of the Qur'an which he has read front to back. But I will agree with you. For others, their knowledge of Islam may just be misguided, hateful, inaccurate information.


My point is what, if any, do you consider to be the threshold for someone to cross before they DO become an expert on Islam? Do they actually have to be a Muslim? That seems like a pretty arbitrary/pseudo-elitist standard because there are certainly exist non-Muslims who plausibly have a greater understanding of Islam than many Muslims. For example, a non-Muslim with a Ph. D. in Islamic Studies. And that applies to all religions. EDIT: Basically, why do we need to make a distinction? If people don't know what they're talking about, their credibility will come into question inevitably. But if they do know what they're talking about, what's the problem?

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Bull, I have read Muslim Leaders and Scholars and seen them on their TV programmes in the Middle East. It is not hard to learn what is going on nor what they believe in general, unless you think there is a conspiracy to distort their writings and speeches. Also, prior to 911 I was quite aware of Islam. The real question is why are you so slow to understand its global objectives and push for global sharia which cannot tolerate any other system - period - and why do you seemingly always come to Islam's defence?

I hate blanket statements. Bugs the crap out of me.

Where have I ever come to "Islam's defense?" Is that all you see when I am making statements about not judging entire groups based on the actions and beliefs of some of them and ignoring those who have a different point of view? I am well aware of the anti-western sentiments of large segments of people who live in the Middle East. I know firsthand what the results of their belief brings. I do not see that adopting their way of thinking; e.g., an "us v. them" mindset, is going to bring any positive results.

I am defending my country's principles and its Constitution, and I am suggesting we think about functioning in a manner based on something other than an eye for an eye.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by Calvinist

We don't have to be muslim to know what it teaches. The koran says to kill the infidel. That's enough for me.

I understand. I was raised in a Calvinist tradition.

But...I'm better now...

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Well, quite frankly, the negative response regarding Islam didn't have a thing to do with the thread either, including yours, so the responses that made the comparison were quite logical based upon the turn the thread had taken.



Speaking of tiresome tactics, arguing that Islam is inherently evil based listening to unnamed "Islamic leaders" of an unnamed school of Islamic thought, and referencing uncited articles, and making grand sweeping and and unsubstantiated statements such as:

Indivduals may distort the truth of the Quran because of its brutality but not the other way around. It is the radicals who have the truth of the Quran - that is the facts.

is about as tiresome as it gets, which is why I started this thread.



I don't but it served the purpose for which it was intended.

In many other threads I have supplied the names - heck you want plenty of videos with names go here MEMRITV - The Middle East Media Research Institute

There are only 4 major schools of thought in the Sunni - you would think you would know them. Shia has basically three but not considered sects and their Imams which are appointed by God continue to speak the truth. Anyway they all should be following the Quran and Sunnah or ahadith - and we know whats in them and how they interpret them.

Enjoy the vids. Plenty of leaders and a mass of followers - not some small sect under some rock in the desert waiting to lash out.

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

I hate blanket statements. Bugs the crap out of me.

Where have I ever come to "Islam's defense?" Is that all you see when I am making statements about not judging entire groups based on the actions and beliefs of some of them and ignoring those who have a different point of view? I am well aware of the anti-western sentiments of large segments of people who live in the Middle East. I know firsthand what the results of their belief brings. I do not see that adopting their way of thinking; e.g., an "us v. them" mindset, is going to bring any positive results.

I am defending my country's principles and its Constitution, and I am suggesting we think about functioning in a manner based on something other than an eye for an eye.

Really, is that what I am calling for - an eye for an eye. Whatever.

[Hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by ovcatto

Prior to 9.11 I doubt that most Americans could tell the difference between a Muslim, a follower of the prophet Mohammed and a piece of Muslin, the fabric. Suddenly every Tom, Dick and Newt is a expert on the Qu'ran, Islam in general and Muslims in particular.

Why am I so skeptical? Islam is practiced by 1.4 billion people world wide divided into two major divisions with, by some estimates, another 150 subdivisions each with its own view and interpretation of the major books of Islam...

Which brings us to the underlying documents of Islamic belief.

Not only do Muslims rely on the Tanakh, and the New Testament, but like Judaism, relies on its main text, the Qu'ran, and the Hadith, but but also the Tafsir, the Sirah, and much like the Talmud an ongoing series of documented debates regarding the meaning of their holy texts.

So, what I would like to know, is how in god's green earth can so many people suddenly rise up out of nowhere feeling that they can pontificate about what Islam is as a religion much less make commentaries on what Muslims believe?

This phenomenon is emblematic of one of the few drawbacks to the internet - Every moron thinks he's an expert because he memorized some factoid from some shamelessly biased web page.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by {geek}

Prior to 9/11 my best friend was a Muslim from Pakistan. Even now, my same best friend is a Muslim from Pakistan.

I've known some Muslims that were on the extreme end, and some that were not. There was a Muslim couple here in IL that started a television station and wanted to promote how folks didn't need to fear Islam and that Muslims were just like everyone else.

The wife had had enough (because he was abusive) and she filed for divorce. The husband went crazy during an argument at the station, with her. He killed her, and then cut off her head and left her bloody body and head, in the hallway of the television station.

Under the laws of Islam, he said he was justified to kill his wife because she dishonored him by divorcing him.

My best friend that's Muslim, wouldn't hurt a flea. He doesn't believe it's "OK" for anyone to take the life of another, even if it's supposedly a right given to men under the Quran.

Originally Posted by ovcatto

I don't mean to be rude, but what is the lesson that we are to derive from your post and how does it relate to the thread topic?

Jumping in on this, but I saw this as an example of how being a Muslim depends upon who the individual is, not the religion.

[{geek}]

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

Jumping in on this, but I saw this as an example of how being a Muslim depends upon who the individual is, not the religion.

That's exactly what it meant.

[Mightyqueen801]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Really, is that what I am calling for - an eye for an eye. Whatever.

Fundamentalist Muslims: Americans/Westerners are all out to kill Muslims and take their lands. We have to do whatever it takes to stop them.

Anti-Muslim Americans/Westerners: Muslims are all out to kill Westerners and impose their religious law upon us. We have to do whatever it takes to stop them.

Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801

Fundamentalist Muslims: Americans/Westerners are all out to kill Muslims and take their lands. We have to do whatever it takes to stop them.

Anti-Muslim Americans/Westerners: Muslims are all out to kill Westerners and impose their religious law upon us. We have to do whatever it takes to stop them.

Once again another irrelevent post about me and my previous statement - you just go from one assumption to the next - juckin and jiving - I can not keep up with this rabbit trail.