There are already two mosques near Ground Zero (Congressmen, FBI, solutions)
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Exactly, exactly, exactly. As far as I know, no one at the World Trade Center got to make US policy in the Middle East. The terrorist attack was cowardly, and Osama Bin Laden's statement that everywhere Americans go all they do is kill children and occupy Muslims land is what they believe. But they didn't come here. We went into THEIR land, brought our military, deposed heads of states and installed new ones that worked out better for our interests, and when those leaders denied them the right to practice their religion, or stole their possessions, or executed them because they didn't agree with the new policies, it stoked anger at the US. That they retaliated for this by killing civilians who had nothing to do with those choices was an abomination, but they see it as a valid move because the people of the United States supposedly have control over our leaders.
This cry of "All Muslims are evil!" plays right into the core beliefs of the terrorists.
Yes it does. How could they recruit if they couldn't claim to be oppressed?
Oppressing them further is a propaganda victory...for them.
And judging from polling data, I'm not alone in thinking this way.
Majority rules has no relevance where constitutional rights are involved.
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Is the mere idea of this mosque promoting relations or increasing tensions?
It seems only to increase tensions in a certain class of right-wing loonie, as far as I can tell. Again, as for polls, most Americans don't have a clue what the First Amendment requires or how it is interpreted, etc. Hell more than half of them are Creationists. So much for polls.
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You are way off base on this comment. That statement was a disclaimer and FTR, I am in agreement with the people who do not trust this Imam's intentions in building this mosque in this location. The intolerance is coming from those who are forcing their will to build this mosque against the desires of the people. Tolerance would be to show sensitivity to the victims, not impose your legal right just because you can.
I was speaking generally, and I think I am right smack dab on target. This is nothing but bigotry. Obviously the builders of this place feel differently about how to express their tolerance. So oppose it all you like - but don't expect the government to act on your recommendations in violation of the laws of the land.
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Well perhaps you should acknowledge history yourself and realize that our presence in the ME isn't the ONLY reason they attacked us.
And I never said it was, now did I?
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Go read some of Bin Laden's statements about his hatred for the West and our culture. Not only that, but we didn't build military bases directly on top of or right next to culturally or religiously significant places. And I like how you attempt to not justify 9/11 in the same breath as justifying it.
Been there, done that. So what. I agree they are exaggerating the military base thing. The point is, those screeching against this community center being built "close' to "sacred" ground sound just like them.
IF WE START ACTING LIKE THEM, THAT IS THEIR VICTORY.
As for "justifying 9/11", spare me the usual "oh you must hate America and love muslims" speech. Seriously. How childish.
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And many others like me. In fact, a majority of the citizens of the US. Very few believe its true intent is to promote peace, but keep on drinking that kool-aid. It must be quite refreshing.
And I still don't care. The vast majority of Americans, in my experience, will believe just about anything if it plucks at their heartstrings or they think it will lower their taxes.
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If there's two already in the immediate vicinity, then why the need for a third? Or, is its true purpose as many suggest to be some sort of victory shrine to radical islam?
Supposition, and baseless at that. On what legal theory would you limit the number of a particular kind of religion's building without flagrantly violating the First Amendment?
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This has zero to do with freedom of religion. I don't care what religion, if any, people want to practice as long as they aren't promoting violence and terrorism.
And there is no evidence that *they* are, so it IS about religion, because THAT is why people are opposed. At the end of the day you are still blaming THIS group for stuff that OTHERS did, just because they are the same religion.
And that is called "bigotry."
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They can build their mosque elsewhere but choose not to, and that speaks volumes to their intent.
They have publicly stated what their intent is, and it is not what you say it is. I have seen no credible evidence to the contrary.
No one is suggesting that as is evident. The thing that I see is that the end result will be the same as if the Japnese proposed to put a temple near pearl harbor. They opf course would never suggest such a thing.I bascially am shocked that the muslim community itself does not actaully stop it for the same reason in that it is just pushing a button that will cause very bad feeeling especailly this soon after 9-11. It willa ctaully harm those peaceful that consdier themselves american muslims first and froemost.
Japan went to war with us as an entire nation, the muslims that attacked us were a small faction of militants. I would hate to start generalizing about any religion based on a small radical fringe of their followers.
Majority rules has no relevance where constitutional rights are involved.
It seems only to increase tensions in a certain class of right-wing loonie, as far as I can tell. Again, as for polls, most Americans don't have a clue what the First Amendment requires or how it is interpreted, etc. Hell more than half of them are Creationists. So much for polls.
I was speaking generally, and I think I am right smack dab on target. This is nothing but bigotry. Obviously the builders of this place feel differently about how to express their tolerance. So oppose it all you like - but don't expect the government to act on your recommendations in violation of the laws of the land.
And I never said it was, now did I?
Been there, done that. So what. I agree they are exaggerating the military base thing. The point is, those screeching against this community center being built "close' to "sacred" ground sound just like them.
IF WE START ACTING LIKE THEM, THAT IS THEIR VICTORY.
As for "justifying 9/11", spare me the usual "oh you must hate America and love muslims" speech. Seriously. How childish.
And I still don't care. The vast majority of Americans, in my experience, will believe just about anything if it plucks at their heartstrings or they think it will lower their taxes.
Supposition, and baseless at that. On what legal theory would you limit the number of a particular kind of religion's building without flagrantly violating the First Amendment?
And there is no evidence that *they* are, so it IS about religion, because THAT is why people are opposed. At the end of the day you are still blaming THIS group for stuff that OTHERS did, just because they are the same religion.
And that is called "bigotry."
They have publicly stated what their intent is, and it is not what you say it is. I have seen no credible evidence to the contrary.
We are NOT acting like "them" (by "them" I assumed you meant radical Islamic terrorists). Please, that is way over dramatic. I see none here in opposititon to this Mosque/community center flying commercial airline planes into buildings killing thousands. I see none in opposition attemptint to plant car bombs in Times Square or under bridges. You paint with a very wide brsh while accusing the opposition to this project of doing the same. Have some consistency.
Is bigotry to ask for a show of respect from the Muslim comminity on THIS project in THIS location?
Is it bigotry to request that Andrew Cuomo do his job in regard to 501(c)3's and verify that the funding for this project is not coming from organizations with ties to terrorism?
Is it bigotry to question the motivations of an Imam who wants to see the US judiciary accomodate Shariah Law here in the US?
Really?
Or, is it moving forward with eyes wide open rather than heads stuck in the sand. I think it is the latter and not bigotry at all. "Trust but verify"
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 08-16-2010 at 11:28 AM..
I can't believe how people get their hackles up over this. Suggest a JESUS SAVES center, and they are all for it. How about a holy water cleansing fountain ? A statue of the POPE holding the twin towers in his hands with halos and wings on them ? How far should it go ? Muslims died in the towers, too.
We are NOT acting like "them" (by "them" I assumed you meant radical Islamic terrorists). Please, that is way over dramatic. I see none here in opposititon to this Mosque/community center flying commercial airline planes into buildings killing thousands. I see none in opposition attemptint to plant car bombs in Times Square or under bridges. You paint with a very wide brsh while accusing the opposition to this project of doing the same. Have some consistency.
Is bigotry to ask for a show of respect from the Muslim comminity on THIS project in THIS location?
Is it bigotry to request that Andrew Cuomo do his job in regard to 501(c)3's and verify that the funding for this project is not coming from organizations with ties to terrorism?
Is it bigotry to question the motivations of an Imam who wants to see the US judiciary accomodate Shariah Law here in the US?
Really?
Or, is it moving forward with eyes wide open rather than heads stuck in the sand. I think it is the latter and not bigotry at all. "Trust but verify"
According to some on the left, yes it is bigotry. And what if we come to find out that the funding is coming from Hamas or other organizations with terrorist ties? What then?? Will the left still support this mosque? I'm guessing the answer to that question will undeniably be YES.
We are NOT acting like "them" (by "them" I assumed you meant radical Islamic terrorists).
You are reacting, predictably, to the same stimulus and in the same manner, just not to a violent degree. They got ticked because we "invaded" their holy places with our filthy dhimmi ways. You're getting ticked because they are invading what you see is some kind of holy site with their filthy Muslim ways. In my mind, you are both thinking the same way (or just not thinking so much as reacting).
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Please, that is way over dramatic. I see none here in opposititon to this Mosque/community center flying commercial airline planes into buildings killing thousands. I see none in opposition attemptint to plant car bombs in Times Square or under bridges. You paint with a very wide brsh while accusing the opposition to this project of doing the same. Have some consistency.
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Is bigotry to ask for a show of respect from the Muslim comminity on THIS project in THIS location?
The reasons behind your request are based in bigotry. Why do THEY have to show more respect than a church or a synagogue? Yeah, it's bigotry.
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Is it bigotry to request that Andrew Cuomo do his job in regard to 501(c)3's and verify that the funding for this project is not coming from organizations with ties to terrorism?
See above. Would you even be asking for that if it was a Buddhist shrine? I think not.
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Is it bigotry to question the motivations of an Imam who wants to see the US judiciary accomodate Shariah Law here in the US?
Not necessarily, if that were all that was happening here. But clearly it isn't. And even if true, it's still no grounds to deny them. BTW I laugh at threads about Sharia law taking over, so...
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Really?
Or, is it moving forward with eyes wide open rather than heads stuck in the sand. I think it is the latter and not bigotry at all. "Trust but verify"
And would you apply that policy to every religion, equally, all the time?
According to some on the left, yes it is bigotry. And what if we come to find out that the funding is coming from Hamas or other organizations with terrorist ties? What then?? Will the left still support this mosque? I'm guessing the answer to that question will undeniably be YES.
Then you would have independent, legal, secular reasons for government action.
BTW, since when is believing in the free exercise of relgion a "leftist" thing?
We are NOT acting like "them" (by "them" I assumed you meant radical Islamic terrorists). Please, that is way over dramatic. I see none here in opposititon to this Mosque/community center flying commercial airline planes into buildings killing thousands. I see none in opposition attemptint to plant car bombs in Times Square or under bridges. You paint with a very wide brsh while accusing the opposition to this project of doing the same. Have some consistency.
Is bigotry to ask for a show of respect from the Muslim comminity on THIS project in THIS location?
Is it bigotry to request that Andrew Cuomo do his job in regard to 501(c)3's and verify that the funding for this project is not coming from organizations with ties to terrorism?
Is it bigotry to question the motivations of an Imam who wants to see the US judiciary accomodate Shariah Law here in the US?
Really?
Or, is it moving forward with eyes wide open rather than heads stuck in the sand. I think it is the latter and not bigotry at all. "Trust but verify"
Not yet, but you ARE calling in death threats to the members of Community Board 1 for approving the mosque plans, and you DID attack those two Egyptian Coptic Christians at the June 6th protest because they were Arab even though they flew 3000 miles to join the protest. These are the embryonic stages of wider violence, no?
Oh, maybe you yourself didn't actually do either of those things, but you belong to the same group as those who do them, so you are guilty, too.
Isn't that how it works? See, I'm catching on.
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