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Old 08-20-2010, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Why don't they?

Please explain why free market principles are invalid for the insurance industry. I am very interested in your reply.


And speaking of 'good health care costs money', you do realize our country is deep in debt and cannot AFFORD to pay for the health care of its citizens, no matter how noble the goal might be.
Each state insurance commission mandates that an individual insurance policy bought in that state contain certain coverages. For example, some states mandate mental health coverage, some don't. Some states mandate immunization coverage, some don't. And so forth. What the "allow insurance to be sold across state lines" people are really wanting is to be able to sell policies that cover the least conditions, by eliminating these mandates. (Group insurance is covered by a different set of standards.)

Yes, believe it or not, I am aware that our country is deep in debt. Whether that means it can afford to pay for health care for its citizens is irrelevant, as the vast majority of people will continue to be covered under private insurance that they pay for themselves.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:03 PM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,475,383 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Assuming you actually have an interest in knowing, here are a few. Needs a lot more, specifically in the most effective area, prevention.

How Do We Contain Rising Health Care Costs? :: News :: The Rockefeller Foundation
Piece by piece answer as edited as I can:
For the first time, insurers will be required to publicly justify premium increases, thus limiting companies’ ability to push less healthy individuals and small businesses off their rolls. And if insurers spend premiums on excessive administrative costs instead of medical care and quality improvement, policy holders will get rebates.

You can find out how much is made in profit by the company already.

On top of that its still limited by arbitrary state lines. So someone buying insurance in State A which requires boob jobs and fertility treatments means that people in State A will be paying for coverage they may not want or need. Simply opening coverage across state lines with clear layouts of what is covered and what is not would have been an easier free market method.

The law introduces much-needed competition into the insurance market. Beginning in 2014, Americans will be able to buy affordable health coverage through innovative state-based exchanges

I can shop around already, thanks. Further, competition comes from those who wish to compete. You still have to have companies cover as per state rules (see above).

An important part of that will be a new web portal coming this summer that will help consumers and employers explore and compare coverage options in their state.

Sure, we'll do this for cars too I assume. I can compare a Camry to an Accord to a CTS run by a state funded (tax payer) site, instead of just doing the research myself. Lazy. Doesn't effect cost-per-unit either.

The new law will also cut costs by standardizing forms and reducing providers’ paperwork burden.

.gov regulations and defensive medicine are the #1 cause of my increase in paperwork already. Standardizing an increase of forms means just and increase of filling out the same form time and again. 7-10% decrease is a PIPE DREAM. 7-10% of health costs aren't from filling out forms.

The new law also encourages hospitals and providers to find new ways to provide higher quality care and avoid unnecessary hospital readmissions

Majority of readmissions I will have: poor patient compliance and continued poor health habits. Its funny how we will hold health workers accountable, but not teachers who are much more directly involved in the oversite of their charges.

For years, our health care system has really been a “sick care system.” But through new incentives and mandatory coverage of proven preventive services for new plans, the new law will help patients get the care they need early, avoiding costly, unnecessary care later.

Well care has been going on for years now. Despite the Surgeon Generals warnings, the fat content printed on a menu, and the DWI PSA's people still don't take care of themselves. Kids can get free vaccines through schools, states spend a plethora of money on care, and again, we'll have the same 15% of patients, many of whom are self-problematic, sucking up 60% of care. Unless you punatively enforce better health your wasting your time and mine.

including new rules allowing young adults to stay on their parents’ insurance plans until age 26

I'm sorry, but this just makes me laugh. Its what, high school economics? If I have a family discounted rate for X years, and now that discounted rate has to last longer by law I'll just increase my prices to balance out the costs. Hiding post-collegeal adults behind mommy and daddies insurance plan is just a recipe to fudge the numbers. It didn't help affordability or these people would have their own insurance.

They then go on to babble about things they don't know about. For instance, fee for service. If I'm contracted to be paid X for a services by a provider that sends me 100 patients/month they are going to get a discount compared to the self pay person who may visit a doctor once a year. Less boutique shopping, more understanding Costo/Price Club pricing schemes. Let see.. contradictions, skipping steps. Yeah I'll stop here for now. I think the point I made was clear.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:08 PM
 
2,851 posts, read 3,475,383 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
************************************************** ****
1. don't reply in quotes. Makes me not want to reply.
2. If all these things are known quantities of waste (defensive medicine accounts for up to 30% of costs) why were there no mentions of fixes in the HCR.
3. New proceedures today increase life spans significantly more then older ones with the exception of perhaps antibiotics and organ transplants.
4. Research and costs associated with new medicines are very much private sector. Also, taxation supported research still costs us money.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:11 PM
 
9,855 posts, read 10,415,085 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Each state insurance commission mandates that an individual insurance policy bought in that state contain certain coverages. For example, some states mandate mental health coverage, some don't. Some states mandate immunization coverage, some don't. And so forth. What the "allow insurance to be sold across state lines" people are really wanting is to be able to sell policies that cover the least conditions, by eliminating these mandates. (Group insurance is covered by a different set of standards.)

Yes, believe it or not, I am aware that our country is deep in debt. Whether that means it can afford to pay for health care for its citizens is irrelevant, as the vast majority of people will continue to be covered under private insurance that they pay for themselves.
Do you have some statistics to prove that the "vast majority" pay for their own health care through private insurance? Given the abysmal unemployment in the US I find this an astounding assertion.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,950,814 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Each state insurance commission mandates that an individual insurance policy bought in that state contain certain coverages. For example, some states mandate mental health coverage, some don't. Some states mandate immunization coverage, some don't. And so forth. What the "allow insurance to be sold across state lines" people are really wanting is to be able to sell policies that cover the least conditions, by eliminating these mandates. (Group insurance is covered by a different set of standards.)
You do realize that obamacare is setting the standard minimum services that insurance companies would have to offer, thereby increasing the premiums for individuals and business.

Not everyone fits into a nice, neat little expensive package of benefits.
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Old 08-20-2010, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,950,814 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Must be my malware protection preventing the FOS load of ....
BS. Mine works just fine.

Take the plunge, click the link, learn something.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,643 posts, read 26,384,037 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
It actually will lower costs compared to doing nothing. The current legislation slows health care costs, but they will still rise more than today because of our aging population. This is a good reason why we need a public option.

The presentation says "Don't say the law will cut costs and the deficit".

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html

Maybe some of those non-college educated females and Latinos they are targeting are smart enough to realize, all things being equal, you can't cut something without having less of it or cover more people and pre-existing conditions without raising costs. In other words, it doesn't pass the smell test.
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,643 posts, read 26,384,037 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
The Medicare trustees report, the audit of the program, said the current reforms give Medicare an increase of 12 years. The parts that got cut from Medicare were mostly under Medicare Advantage. That part of Medicare was ran by private insurance companies. It was inefficient and the government running it saves taxpayers more money.


Link?
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Old 08-20-2010, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,643 posts, read 26,384,037 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
Sanrene, since you're an expert on the subject (or at least your sources claim to be), how about we see the state of health care access in the USA over last, say, 10-12 years? And what the cost projections would have been, if not for the health care reform.

Your turn...

Using those tips aready?

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,643 posts, read 26,384,037 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
Complete with PP presentation.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM153_pp.html

Because we ALL know by now that when obama said it would lower costs, that was a lie. When he said you can keep your doctor/plan, that was a lie. When he said small business would receive tax credits, that was a lie (for MOST of them).

This is an acknowledgment that they lied and their predictions that the people would love it has failed miserably...again.

There is NO way they can run and hide from what they've done and HOW they did it.

New Dem message: 'Improve' health care, don't talk cost - Ben Smith - POLITICO.com



The number of people wanting this monstrosity appealed is growing everyday.

I wonder how those that championed the bill, that were cheerleaders for this administration and the democrats feel now, after ALL the nasty little surprises have come out (they probably don't pay any attention to them).

Do they even know how much they have been duped, lied to, bamboozled and hoodwinked?

Do you think they even care? Or do they continue to repeat the mantra, "yes we did", beyond all logic and reason in the face of the FACTS.



The claims that we can keep the ambulance chasers, cover millions more people with no lifetime benefits caps or exclusions of pre-existing conditions without rationing, long waits for care, fewer medical professionals and medical facilities, excluded medicines and treatments, death panels or wildly increased costs defies rational thought. The public isn't buying this turkey. Next up...the November blood bath!
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