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It kills me that you do not see their strategic maneuvers, it is amazing to me that you still see this as all about principles. They have principles, we have principles, whooptie due. There is an end game here that far surpasses anything America has ever dreamed of. I guess you still believe that black people where the first slaves and the only slaves for that matter.
In our future, not in our life time, but in our future, international law, federal law (within each country) state level law, all will rule a one world government. I know you do not see the Bible as a historical document; that it is some religious nut job of a piece of work. However, I see the hierarchy and they see it to. (when in Rome do as the Romans do)
This is a fight that began eons ago. America was not in that fight until 911. Adams rescued the British slaves of the 1677s, but still we were not in it as a hands on country until now.
I truly wish I was in your world DC Ridge. I really wish I could get there, because it is there a person doesn't have to know anything.
Fight or flight is science made simple. I didn't do that, science did.
Middle East have read the Bible and they are following it to the letter. Open it read it, then read the newspapers and see the countries mentioned there that were at war, then see the countries today, the same at war. It isn't over until the world become one, world.
Disclosure that I'm sure will give to you a good laugh at me. When I was a child who read the Bible. I would look at the names of the towns, the cities and countries and look at the maps pages and think, wow what a far off place a mystery of sorts. I use to think, "I'm glad those places do not exist."
Come to find out, they do!
The dissension is about principle. Standing by principle or abandoning principle. That's the issue here.
I have great respect for the Bible. I haven't said anything to indicate otherwise.
And I don't know why you keep on trying to introduce race into our discussion. What do black people and slavery have to do with this topic?
The dissension is about principle. Standing by principle or abandoning principle. That's the issue here.
I have great respect for the Bible. I haven't said anything to indicate otherwise.
And I don't know why you keep on trying to introduce race into our discussion. What do black people and slavery have to do with this topic?
Because it is very important to know ones history of people so as to determine and understand why they do what they do today. What their unspoken goals really are.
If you would like to make this about principles then fine. They will stand on theirs allot longer than America will stand on hers.
Because it is very important to know ones history of people so as to determine and understand why they do what they do today. What their unspoken goals really are.
If you would like to make this about principles then fine. They will stand on theirs allot longer than America will stand on hers.
It's up to Americans how long they will stand by their principles. I think I give Americans a lot more credit than you.
And is the history of people remark supposed to answer why you keep trying to introduce race into this issue? Because your reasoning eludes me.
The simple fact of the matter is that as a country we were founded on certain principles, and we have told the world that our nation is an example of how the principles of justice, freedom and equality are workable. The terrorists, the people around the world who hate us, try to tell the world that these principles don't mean anything to the American people, that we only pay lip service to them. If we abandon those principles, we are proving the terrorists right, and discrediting everything that we've achieved as a nation. The fight is indeed about principles. Give up our principles, and the terrorists win.
It's up to Americans how long they will stand by their principles. I think I give Americans a lot more credit than you.
And is the history of people remark supposed to answer why you keep trying to introduce race into this issue? Because your reasoning eludes me.
The simple fact of the matter is that as a country we were founded on certain principles, and we have told the world that our nation is an example of how the principles of justice, freedom and equality are workable. The terrorists, the people around the world who hate us, try to tell the world that these principles don't mean anything to the American people, that we only pay lip service to them. If we abandon those principles, we are proving the terrorists right, and discrediting everything that we've achieved as a nation. The fight is indeed about principles. Give up our principles, and the terrorists win.
Which principles should we up hold in America, the minorities or the majorities? There are many different sets of principles rolling around in our diverse country here, so...which ones does America stand on?
Race is depicted 'only' by the color of ones skin? Race is depicted by one's culture of the country in which they live? Race is depicted by one's principles as derived from the culture and the country in which they reside?
Race---define it for me.
The conflict of the Middle East has been going on for eons. There is a race issue, but I don't believe it is the same one, your thinking on. Remember we were not apart of their war until 911. They wanted to get our attention and they got Bush's attention. (I knew what he was going to do even before he did it and I knew it was going to go over like a led brink with the American people)
We bend our principles each and every time a resistance to them shows up and the word tolerance is through out into the mix.
This is what you are preaching yes, in order to gain equality for minority cultures and their principles we must show tolerance towards them and allow them to integrate even into our laws. We must bend our principles so as to allow room for growth.
PS: America must change. (were have you heard that one before?)
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-01-2010 at 03:22 PM..
Reason: ps:
Americans, not Muslims, are religious bigots=actual fact in a so called free country where one supposenly can practice anything sure get hit with bigotry
Which principles should we up hold in America, the minorities or the majorities? There are many different sets of principles rolling around in our diverse country here, so...which ones does America stand on?
Race is depicted 'only' by the color of ones skin? Race is depicted by one's culture of the country in which they live? Race is depicted by one's principles as derived from the culture and the country in which they reside?
Race---define it for me.
The conflict of the Middle East has been going on for eons. There is a race issue, but I don't believe it is the same one, your thinking on. Remember we were not apart of their war until 911. They wanted to get our attention and they got Bush's attention. (I knew what he was going to do even before he did it and I knew it was going to go over like a led brink with the American people)
We bend our principles each and every time a resistance to them shows up and the word tolerance is through out into the mix.
This is what you are preaching yes, in order to gain equality for minority cultures and their principles we must show tolerance towards them and allow them to integrate even into our laws. We must bend our principles so as to allow room for growth.
PS: America must change. (were have you heard that one before?)
I'm arguing that the Constitution is a strong bulwark against anyone wanting to take away rights from Americans. And that trusting in the Constitution, and supporting it is the right thing to do. I have no reason not to trust the Constitution. I have no fear of Sharia Law because I do trust the Constitution. I trust the principles it espouses. I trust the American people to stand by those principles.
Your argument is that we are at war with a religion. That strikes me as a bad position to be in. How can you win a war against a religion? How can you defeat the billions of people who practice this religion? You cannot.
What you can do is logically look at the problem. There are nations with a majority-Muslim population that are still secular. So clearly there are people who follow Islam who do not think that it has to be a theocracy. Those people are your allies. There are millions of moderate Muslims around the world who do not believe that Islam has to be violent. Those are our allies. There are millions of Muslims in this country who are loyal to the United States. They are not just our allies. They are part of this nation.
We need to cultivate relationships with our allies, and we need to hold fast to the principles that our enemies say don't mean anything to us. We cannot yield to fear or anger or hate. That is the battle. They can try to bomb us, they will probably succeed again. And yet in the wake of 9/11, we stood tall. We took a hit, but we stood tall. Terrorism is about instilling fear. After 9/11, when we lined the streets cheering on the firefighters and policemen, we didn't give into fear. We aren't at war with a religion. We are at war with people who want us to be less than we are, who want us to be reduced to the same fear and hate and anger they feel. I was fortunate to be born an American. I've lived in a country where I've always been free, where neither hate nor fear have guided my decisions. I won't let hate or fear control me now.
Should we worry about terrorists? Certainly. Should we take precautions against them? Absolutely. But we need to remember that the goal of the terrorists is to make us fearful, so fearful that we give up our principles. And that we shouldn't do.
I really don't see how race has anything to do with this.
I'm arguing that the Constitution is a strong bulwark against anyone wanting to take away rights from Americans. And that trusting in the Constitution, and supporting it is the right thing to do. I have no reason not to trust the Constitution. I have no fear of Sharia Law because I do trust the Constitution. I trust the principles it espouses. I trust the American people to stand by those principles.
Your argument is that we are at war with a religion. That strikes me as a bad position to be in. How can you win a war against a religion? How can you defeat the billions of people who practice this religion? You cannot.
What you can do is logically look at the problem. There are nations with a majority-Muslim population that are still secular. So clearly there are people who follow Islam who do not think that it has to be a theocracy. Those people are your allies. There are millions of moderate Muslims around the world who do not believe that Islam has to be violent. Those are our allies. There are millions of Muslims in this country who are loyal to the United States. They are not just our allies. They are part of this nation.
We need to cultivate relationships with our allies, and we need to hold fast to the principles that our enemies say don't mean anything to us. We cannot yield to fear or anger or hate. That is the battle. They can try to bomb us, they will probably succeed again. And yet in the wake of 9/11, we stood tall. We took a hit, but we stood tall. Terrorism is about instilling fear. After 9/11, when we lined the streets cheering on the firefighters and policemen, we didn't give into fear. We aren't at war with a religion. We are at war with people who want us to be less than we are, who want us to be reduced to the same fear and hate and anger they feel. I was fortunate to be born an American. I've lived in a country where I've always been free, where neither hate nor fear have guided my decisions. I won't let hate or fear control me now.
Should we worry about terrorists? Certainly. Should we take precautions against them? Absolutely. But we need to remember that the goal of the terrorists is to make us fearful, so fearful that we give up our principles. And that we shouldn't do.
I really don't see how race has anything to do with this.
First paragraph, I hope you're right. However, civil rights stands for equality and no one needs to take away from, so as to add to.
Second paragraph, no, they are at war with religion and we got sucked into it.
Third paragraph, and Europe, what happened with that. I believe you realize that the American culture came from Europeans. If not, I don't know what to tell ya. From bell bottom jeans to universal health care we are not, nor have we ever been unique and that uniqueness is delusional to say the least. Rebel yes, unique no. PS: they are struggling with the Sharia laws now. Time...give it time for us to be the same.
The terrorist, they do not need to have us fearful in order to be at war with us and the rest of the countries globally. See this does not stop with us. We're not special, we were just the last ones to join the war.
Why do you believe America is afraid? We have tanks, we can roll 'em in, wipe out the lot of 'em, roll 'em back out and then rebuild as a Christmas bonus package. (oh but that's wrong to do that) Or we can use our intelligence to out smart them. Either way, no one is scared of anything. However, if we do get scared, if they do push the envelope, American troops will put them in the ground, end of discussion on that one.
Again, define race. We are not all the same. Sorry, I've often wondered why that is from the Neanderthals forward, but we are not. One group of people have one group of ideas on how they believe things should be in their lives, and the other group has another idea and so on and so on until you cover the whole globe of people.
America must change. Why is that? Are we not just perfect the way we are?
Last edited by Ellis Bell; 09-01-2010 at 04:03 PM..
Reason: ps
We need to cultivate relationships with our allies, and we need to hold fast to the principles that our enemies say don't mean anything to us. We cannot yield to fear or anger or hate. That is the battle. They can try to bomb us, they will probably succeed again. And yet in the wake of 9/11, we stood tall. We took a hit, but we stood tall. Terrorism is about instilling fear. After 9/11, when we lined the streets cheering on the firefighters and policemen, we didn't give into fear. We aren't at war with a religion. We are at war with people who want us to be less than we are, who want us to be reduced to the same fear and hate and anger they feel. I was fortunate to be born an American. I've lived in a country where I've always been free, where neither hate nor fear have guided my decisions. I won't let hate or fear control me now.
The hit we took other than the obvious, was economically. We have yet to recover and we won't. It is a continual process, strategically done so as military funding (bad move on our boys on budget) will weaken the amount of force we are able to put together.
The end game, there is one you know. For them this is about religion, for us it is all about defending what is ours what has been worked for for so long to keep.
Did I tell you they don't care, they want what is ours.
So I was just looking up Adam Lambert's page on Facebook (don't hate LOL) and I noticed the little "886,988 People Like This" box over on the left. Standard Facebook feature, shows 6 people who "like" whatever page/cause/whatever you're on. I glanced at it, saw a picture of a young female wearing a ḥijāb.
I clicked on her profile... she's 11... lives in Ipoh, Perak, Malaysia... and is Muslim. According to her Info page, she likes Adam Lambert. She likes Twilight. The Karate Kid and Hannah Montana The Movie are two of her favorites. She likes watching Disney Club and Sponge Bob. Some of her "Other" likes include:
Prophet Muhammad (SAW), the greatest man in history
I Love Allah
Im a Muslim & Im Proud
oh... and McDonalds.
She's 11. She's Muslim. She lives in Malaysia, one would assume with her parents who it would seem are also Muslim... they're also both on Facebook.
Anyone who wants a link to this young lady's profile, send me a PM... I'm not comfortable posting it here.
Now... here's a kid being raised in a country where Islam is both the largest, and the "official" religion. One can assume from their active wall postings, and the fact that their daughter is their "friend" on Facebook, that her parents are quite aware of what she's up to... what she has "liked"... what she posts.
Lots of "western" likes on that young girl's lists... all sorts of stuff straight out of America... and I mean, Adam Lambert??? The dude who sings For Your Entertainment and shocked the hell out of people with his performance of it at the American Music Awards??? Kissing men on stage, rubbing people's faces into his crotch...?? THAT Adam Lambert??
Yup.
Seriously... do you think this girl and her family spend their time thinking of ways to eradicate western influences and place everyone under Sharia law? Honestly? Have we become so utterly paranoid and suspicious that we cannot see anything else but things we fear?
Why is SHE not the face of Islam? Why do HER ideals and beliefs not represent those held by most Muslims? Why are we so willing to believe the vocal minority, and utterly ignore the quiet majority? She is no more represented by the terrorists than Christians on this site are represented by Fred Phelps.
But if we keep directing our hatred of them at her, how long will it be before she sits back and says, "maybe they really ARE bad people over there... maybe they really DO want to kill me... maybe they really DO hate my religion... and hate me... maybe I need to stop them before they hurt me, since they hate me so much."
What will your fear and paranoia and suspicion and hatred look like to that 11 year old girl?
I suspect it'll look a lot like those terrorists look to us.
So I was just looking up Adam Lambert's page on Facebook (don't hate LOL) and I noticed the little "886,988 People Like This" box over on the left. Standard Facebook feature, shows 6 people who "like" whatever page/cause/whatever you're on. I glanced at it, saw a picture of a young female wearing a ḥijāb.
I clicked on her profile... she's 11... lives in Ipoh, Perak, Malaysia... and is Muslim. According to her Info page, she likes Adam Lambert. She likes Twilight. The Karate Kid and Hannah Montana The Movie are two of her favorites. She likes watching Disney Club and Sponge Bob. Some of her "Other" likes include:
Prophet Muhammad (SAW), the greatest man in history
I Love Allah
Im a Muslim & Im Proud
oh... and McDonalds.
She's 11. She's Muslim. She lives in Malaysia, one would assume with her parents who it would seem are also Muslim... they're also both on Facebook.
Anyone who wants a link to this young lady's profile, send me a PM... I'm not comfortable posting it here.
Now... here's a kid being raised in a country where Islam is both the largest, and the "official" religion. One can assume from their active wall postings, and the fact that their daughter is their "friend" on Facebook, that her parents are quite aware of what she's up to... what she has "liked"... what she posts.
Lots of "western" likes on that young girl's lists... all sorts of stuff straight out of America... and I mean, Adam Lambert??? The dude who sings For Your Entertainment and shocked the hell out of people with his performance of it at the American Music Awards??? Kissing men on stage, rubbing people's faces into his crotch...?? THAT Adam Lambert??
Yup.
Seriously... do you think this girl and her family spend their time thinking of ways to eradicate western influences and place everyone under Sharia law? Honestly? Have we become so utterly paranoid and suspicious that we cannot see anything else but things we fear?
Why is SHE not the face of Islam? Why do HER ideals and beliefs not represent those held by most Muslims? Why are we so willing to believe the vocal minority, and utterly ignore the quiet majority? She is no more represented by the terrorists than Christians on this site are represented by Fred Phelps.
But if we keep directing our hatred of them at her, how long will it be before she sits back and says, "maybe they really ARE bad people over there... maybe they really DO want to kill me... maybe they really DO hate my religion... and hate me... maybe I need to stop them before they hurt me, since they hate me so much."
What will your fear and paranoia and suspicion and hatred look like to that 11 year old girl?
I suspect it'll look a lot like those terrorists look to us.
Cute, I'm sure she is and she's not married off yet?
Tell me, when you see the children of America playing on the play grounds, do you see the next President of the United States or a future member of congress? You should. Are you going to get upset at those children on the play ground because they may make a bad law that effects American in the future or preform some disdain act?
Bring in an 11 year old girl who may or may not ever become an active member of her government is like me bring in an 11 year old boy and saying here, I'm presenting you with the next, Saddam or Hitler...or any one else. Manson also comes to mind, Charlie that is.
Cute. I like it, but it doesn't wash.
Now if we could all view the world through a child's eye, we may all be the better for it, but we can't.
The hope of our future generations is through the change in ideals brought about through the changes made from one generation to the next. However, we are not in the future we are in the here and now and we can only project what our future will be through what is happening in the here and now and compare now, to our history.
I don't believe America is fear driven. I believe America is driven to gain intelligence on the situation so as to reach a far better solution than to just go in and blow everything and every one to oblivion.
The Islamic government, those who are in control of their actions, or so they are suppose to be in control, what are they doing? (we know what the children are doing on facebook)
But if we say it, we're racists. "Al-Shabaab Claim Responsibility for Uganda Blasts," by Jim Sciutto for ABC News, July 12:.
[...] Al Shabaab, a fundemental Islamist group based in Somalia, today claimed responsibility for the attacks. "We will carry out attacks against our enemy wherever they are," Sheik Ali Mohamud Rage speaking from Mogadishu told The Associated Press. [...]
Qur'an 9:5.
"No one will deter us from performing our Islamic duty." [...]
Now for the ideas on what we can do to defend this? (some want to accept it as a part of our New America give to them tolerance and move on) Stealing Al-Qa'ida's Playbook Powered by Google Docs
For me, I'm not so much afraid of Islam as I am the American who can not distinguish right from wrong and will defend wrong doing with the laws that govern us. Those people show to me that our future is getting bleaker and bleaker, with each word they utter out of confusion and through that confusion they add to it, more confusion.
Even the definition of a bigot is being back slandered.
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