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I've never ever once heard of a Christian stabbing someone or blowing someone up while screaming "Allah akbar!" or "God is great!". My point is that they don't do it in the name of Christianity in the hope of 72 virgins after they die.
Things done in the name of Jesus:
The Crusades
The Spanish Inquisition
The subjugation of the Native American Tribes of North and South America
The thousands upon thousands of Europeans burned at the stake for heresy
The Great Schism
The Reformation
The Counter Reformation
The 100 Years War
The 30 Years War
90% every war fought in Europe
The Holocaust
The Troubles of Northern Ireland
Centuries of Scientists and Philoshophers subjugated by the Holy Church
Branch Davidians
The Beating of Matthew Shepard
The Oklahoma City Bombing
The KKK
...
I bet this is but 10% of the negative things about Christianity. So as Jesus would say "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Also Christ said, "Not all those who speak my name, shall see the Kingdom of Heaven."
No, Christians are sometimes simply hateful because they choose to be. Not true Christians I guess.
Yah...cuz it sucks to be told we don't approve of your lifestyle? Wow...that's horrible.
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Originally Posted by Wingsy
You should amend that to say, "My point is that they don't do it today in the name of Christianity..."
Because, you know, torturing people to death, hanging them, burning them, running them through with a sword... all in the name of Christianity, sending their "heathen souls" to hell... I'm rather certain that their victims weren't anywhere near as concerned with WHAT they were saying, or even WHY, as they were with the pain and horror of being slaughtered by them.
You are right--there has been plenty done wrong in the name of Christ over the years.
The difference is that our devout don't do that. If they do, they aren't true Christians are only using the religion. The islamic devout most definitely do those sorts of things, though.
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No, Christians just do things like plan "Burn Quran Day"... thus ensuring we can give even more Muslims reason to hate us.
And? So what? I only hope some representatives of the "religion of peace" don't show up with bombs strapped to their chests.
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Apparently Fred Phelps and his Westboro Whackos have company now.
Freddy boy is not a Christian. He is a leader of a cult made up almost entirely of his family.
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And here's the thing, ladies and gents... if you can't separate most followers of Islam from the psychotic and violent extremists... why on earth would you expect anyone to separate YOU from the psychotic and violent extremists hijacking YOUR religion and using it to further promote violence, hatred and discontent?
If my Muslim neighbors, friends and co-workers are somehow responsible for the terrorists, if the actions of the terrorists reflect on them... then the actions of whackjobs like Phelps and Jones is just as much YOUR responsibility, and reflects just as much on you.
If your muslim friends and neighbors were actually following the koran they'd be doing the same things. It's what the koran teaches.
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Why aren't YOU stopping these nutjobs from hijacking your religion? People ask the peaceful Muslims (which far outnumber the terrorists) why they can't/won't/don't stop their bad seeds... but for some reason, Christians get a pass when it comes to stopping theirs.
How does that work exactly?
If you mean Freddy and the gang? I do speak out against them. I support the Patriot Guard bikers that line the sidewalks between them and teh funerals they picket.
Muslims hate us anyway, they hate us because we are not Muslim - the same reason they hate Hindus in India, Jews in the Middle East and everywhere, animists in Africa.
And exactly what do you suggests separates the psychotic and violent Muslims from all those great ones you believe exist? Are the violent ones ever excommunicated -- tossed out of Islam?
Are you really suggesting there are different Islams? One for the nutcases and one for the sane? Hate to tell you - but it's one big ideology, they all follow the same book and there is no iman excommunicating anyone no matter what.
You can insist that those like bin Laden are hijacking the religion - but then why isn't he and all the others thrown out? Those in control of the religion don't believe like you - that's why.
How many Muslims do you know? How many have visited you in your home? How many Muslim homes have you visited? How many Muslims have you sat down and discussed these issues with? How many Muslims have you asked for their opinion? How many Imams have you met? How many Mosques have you visited?
Are there different Christianities? One for the nutcases like Phelps and Jones, one for the sane? Where are your Christian leaders excommunicating them and others like them?
When Christians were storming through countries during the Crusades and the Inquisition... who was stopping them? Did all Christians hate all non-Christians? Wish the death of all Christians? What separated the average Christian from the murdering hoards and leaders?
We can't even conceive of what it's like to live in a theocracy... to live under threat of death from your government every single day... to know that if we walk down the street and our clothing slips, or we do not genuflect properly at the right moment, or say the right thing, we... and our family... and everyone who knows us... will be murdered. We cannot conceive of living that existence, feeling helpless to fight against those in power.
Here, if we don't like our government, we vote them out... we impeach them... or we move elsewhere.
There... if you don't like your government... you learn to shut up or die.
And what do we do in response to this? We slaughter thousands of innocent people in our bid to take out the terrorists... so we make the average Muslim as afraid of us as they are of their own government/religious leaders (which are one and the same). And worse... we, the average American, blame those scared, endangered people... for the actions of the psychos who have the weapons, the power, and the will to kill indiscriminately.
We're killing the innocents as fast as the terrorists are... and then we wonder why they're not rising up and taking control back from the terrorists? Who is going to back them, help them? Us? Would you believe the guy who came to your door with a big 'ol gun and said, "I'm here to help" 10 minutes after he dropped a bomb up the street that slaughtered your neighbors, their children, your grandmother?
If your muslim friends and neighbors were actually following the koran they'd be doing the same things. It's what the koran teaches.
The bible teaches you to take your children outside the gates of the city and murder them if they disrespect you.
Are you going to do it?
No?
Oh... you mean that you have the intelligence and understanding to recognize that not everything in your bible is really appropriate? You pick and choose which parts to follow?
But Muslims apparently are not capable of being equally intelligent and understanding?
Get 20 Christians together and ask their interpretation of 20 different passages in the bible. Be honest now... what will happen? Will their interpretations all match? Obviously not... glaring example is what the bible says/means with regards to homosexuality. Or the whole "suffer a witch to live" bit.
Why would you assume it's different for Muslims?
And why would you insist that the terrorists are the ones who are devout? If Phelps and Jones - who consider THEMSELVES "true Christians" even if you don't, do not represent YOUR religion's devout... then why would you label terrorist nutjobs as Islam's devout?
Why do YOU get to decide who is a "true" Christian and what Christianity really means... but the peaceful Muslims don't get to do the same? And even when they do, people like you refuse to listen.
A few hundred years back, it was YOUR religion storming the world, committing atrocities, slaughtering innocent people in the name of Christ. In the big scheme of thing, it hasn't been so long since YOUR religion was the terrorists.
Yah...cuz it sucks to be told we don't approve of your lifestyle? Wow...that's horrible.
You are right--there has been plenty done wrong in the name of Christ over the years.
The difference is that our devout don't do that. If they do, they aren't true Christians are only using the religion. The islamic devout most definitely do those sorts of things, though.
Oh your so called devout DO do that.
How can you take responsibility for ALL the people who claim your faith and claim that NONE of them ever use religion in an ugly way????
Have you read nothing about the scandals within the priesthood and the molestation charges??????
Seriously, some Christians attitudes remind me of a mom who allows her kids to be abused and turns a blind eye and then, perhaps, repents for it later. Disgusting.
How many Muslims do you know? How many have visited you in your home? How many Muslim homes have you visited? How many Muslims have you sat down and discussed these issues with? How many Muslims have you asked for their opinion? How many Imams have you met? How many Mosques have you visited?
Are there different Christianities? One for the nutcases like Phelps and Jones, one for the sane? Where are your Christian leaders excommunicating them and others like them?
When Christians were storming through countries during the Crusades and the Inquisition... who was stopping them? Did all Christians hate all non-Christians? Wish the death of all Christians? What separated the average Christian from the murdering hoards and leaders?
We can't even conceive of what it's like to live in a theocracy... to live under threat of death from your government every single day... to know that if we walk down the street and our clothing slips, or we do not genuflect properly at the right moment, or say the right thing, we... and our family... and everyone who knows us... will be murdered. We cannot conceive of living that existence, feeling helpless to fight against those in power.
Here, if we don't like our government, we vote them out... we impeach them... or we move elsewhere.
There... if you don't like your government... you learn to shut up or die.
And what do we do in response to this? We slaughter thousands of innocent people in our bid to take out the terrorists... so we make the average Muslim as afraid of us as they are of their own government/religious leaders (which are one and the same). And worse... we, the average American, blame those scared, endangered people... for the actions of the psychos who have the weapons, the power, and the will to kill indiscriminately.
We're killing the innocents as fast as the terrorists are... and then we wonder why they're not rising up and taking control back from the terrorists? Who is going to back them, help them? Us? Would you believe the guy who came to your door with a big 'ol gun and said, "I'm here to help" 10 minutes after he dropped a bomb up the street that slaughtered your neighbors, their children, your grandmother?
A lot - but I also know many Nigerians and Hindus and others whose countries are facing great destruction from Muslims.
And Christians are excommunicated -- and for a whole lot less than Muslims do but remain in good standing in their religion. Catholics who participate in abortions for example are excommunicated. Martin Luther was excommunicated for what was considered heresy.
As for the Inquisition - keep in mind that Spain had suffered Islamic rule and had just come out of that evil period of it's history and the Inquisition was very much a Muslim influence.
And no - I do not want to live under Sharia law. And not one Islamic nation allows for much religious freedom, it's not in the mindset.
Have you read nothing about the scandals within the priesthood and the molestation charges??????
Oh, c'mon NomadScribe... you know the party line on that... those priests aren't "real" Christians... they're those dirty, perverted homo-e-sexshuals who joined the priesthood just so they could prey on our childrenzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!
Same with the perverted Scout Masters, youth lay ministers (what a name), etc.
Just dirty gays hiding within the ranks of the devout, waiting to prey on teh childrenzzzzzz. Savez teh childrenzzzzz from the homo-e-sexshuals!!
Somehow I doubt that. But then again, I tend to doubt anyone who claims they have friends who are *insert group they have a knee jerk prejudice against* all the while listening to them talk about how evil/deviant/perverted/violent/vile/etc. the *insert group they have a knee jerk prejudice against* are.
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Originally Posted by malamute
And Christians are excommunicated -- and for a whole lot less than Muslims do but remain in good standing in their religion. Catholics who participate in abortions for example are excommunicated. Martin Luther was excommunicated for what was considered heresy.
Tell me something... how often have Christian leaders tried to excommunicate someone who held a gun to their head? Ever tried that? Give it a shot, let me know how it turns out...
Then again, no one ever pays attention to the Imams who speak out against the terrorists... or at least not until there's a little news blurb 10 pages in that mentions how "Imam So-And-So died last night..." Of course, no one connects that to that same Imam having denounced the terrorists... because no one bothers to give THAT more than a 2-line mention on page 30, if it comes up at all.
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Originally Posted by malamute
As for the Inquisition - keep in mind that Spain had suffered Islamic rule and had just come out of that evil period of it's history and the Inquisition was very much a Muslim influence.
And no - I do not want to live under Sharia law. And not one Islamic nation allows for much religious freedom, it's not in the mindset.
I don't want to live under Sharia law... or Christian law... or Hindu law... religion is an awful foundation on which to lead a nation. All religions.
And there were four Inquisitions... Spanish was the 2nd... and was directed towards Muslims and Jews primarily, who the church did not believe would/had converted. First Inquisition had zero to do with Islam. The third went after Jews and Hindus. The fourth pretty much went after anyone the Catholics decided they didn't like.
Oh, c'mon NomadScribe... you know the party line on that... those priests aren't "real" Christians... they're those dirty, perverted homo-e-sexshuals who joined the priesthood just so they could prey on our childrenzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!
Same with the perverted Scout Masters, youth lay ministers (what a name), etc.
Just dirty gays hiding within the ranks of the devout, waiting to prey on teh childrenzzzzzz. Savez teh childrenzzzzz from the homo-e-sexshuals!!
/sarcasm
Yah, and to be fair, there are dirty a** aholes all throughout the muslim hierarchies. Its really a disgsting reality .
However....American and European men DO rank among the top conssusmer of sex tourism with underaged females.
I can find stats to fit this argument, but I wold rather not. Life is tough enough.
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