Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That IS part of the Bush Tax Plan, which YOU support.
When did I state that I supported the Bush Tax Plan, as you contend?
Quote:
Don't preach to me John and tell me which party I should belong to you. I was throwing out ideas.
You are throwing out ideas that are contrary to basic libertarian principles. These are similar to stating that you are a Christian yet you don't believe Jesus existed.
Quote:
I am for a smaller government overall by cutting unneeded programs and Government Positions.
I believe that everyone supports this, yet you also support increasing government involvement by providing Universal Health Care. Show me a Libertarian plank that supports this. In the event that you are unaware, here is the official LP position on health care.
Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee (broken link)
Quote:
I haven't seen you come up with any ideas only complain and second guess others.
I've advocated the ideas of the Fair Tax, open borders, less government intervention and individual freedoms and responsibility, issues that are consistent with Libertarian principles.
Quote:
So I guess your support of Bush's tax plan reveals your hypocrisy as well. Get over yourself.
No need for personal attacks.
Last edited by Amaznjohn; 06-28-2007 at 09:22 AM..
I think we need a place for all the Libertarians to go and practice their principals. As it will be having a lot of newly exposed land soon available, I suggest Greenland. They can buy it from the socialist Danes and they run their own show.
When did I state that I supported the Bush Tax Plan, as you contend?
You are throwing out ideas that are contrary to basic libertarian principles. These are similar to stating that you are a Christian yet you don't believe Jesus existed.
I believe that everyone supports this, yet you also support increasing government involvement by providing Universal Health Care. Show me a Libertarian plank that supports this. In the event that you are unaware, here is the official LP position on health care.
Official Website of the Libertarian National Committee (broken link)
I've advocated the ideas of the Fair Tax, open borders, less government intervention and individual freedoms and responsibility, issues that are consistent with Libertarian principles.
No need for personal attacks.
John,
I support the Libertarian Party. This is a political message board. This thread asked for ideas. I was throwing ideas out there.
I thought I read you supported Bush's Tax Cut plan after 9/11 and you believed it helped our economy, which I believe also.
My overall plan was to CUT government with an Audit of the entire Federal Government.
I also support leaving the PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN PLACE!
I was only talking about the poorest among us.
How do children have to take "personal repsonsibility" if they aren't covered with Health Care??? It isn't their fault John.
What is your idea for a Health Care System to help poor children that don't have health coverage?
I still would like to significanlty cut our Federal Government's size and bureacracy.
Even with some kind of Health Care System for poor children my plan would reduce the size of our Federal Government SIGNIFICANTLY to achieve a surplus in our budget.
Earlier you stated that my Libertarian views fit the mold perfectly:
Actually, I think A.L. fits the mold of a true Libertarian perfectly. Many of us Libertarians started out as Rep., mainly because of being fiscally conservative and advocating personal responsibility. However, the Rep. party has abandoned those principles, allowing many of their members to realize that now only the LP and Constitution Party have the same principles as them.
and now because I came up with an idea for Health Care for poor children you are telling me to get out of the Libertarian Party?? That's getting PERSONAL John and I take offense.
What are your ideas for poor children in America? Children cant' take "personal responsibility" John.
I thought I read you supported Bush's Tax Cut plan after 9/11 and you believed it helped our economy, which I believe also.
I supported his tax cuts not tax credits that are given to those who don't pay taxes in the first place.
Quote:
I was only talking about the poorest among us.
How do children have to take "personal repsonsibility" if they aren't covered with Health Care??? It isn't their fault John.
The parents must take personal responibility for their children.
Quote:
What is your idea for a Health Care System to help poor children that don't have health coverage?
Private charities, churches, family, and other civic organizations, the way it was done and is being done.
Quote:
I still would like to significanlty cut our Federal Government's size and bureacracy.
Even with some kind of Health Care System for poor children my plan would reduce the size of our Federal Government SIGNIFICANTLY to achieve a surplus in our budget.
I don't know how you have come to determine this. The health care industry is such a monster that providing it for the poor, as you proposed,
Quote:
Also, all poor Americans that don't have Health Insurance would qualify for the Universal Health Care system.
would increase the size of the federal government far above any savings you could find.
Quote:
Earlier you stated that my Libertarian views fit the mold perfectly:
and now because I came up with an idea for Health Care for poor children you are telling me to get out of the Libertarian Party?? That's getting PERSONAL John and I take offense.
I didn't tell you to get out of the LP. I simply asked you to change your name or quit promoting policies that are contrary to libertarianism.
Quote:
What are your ideas for poor children in America? Children cant' take "personal responsibility" John.
What's YOUR idea?
I supported his tax cuts not tax credits that are given to those who don't pay taxes in the first place.
Bush's tax cut plan and $1,000 child tax credits are part of the same plan. YOu can't have one without the other. They are part of Bush's same plan!!
Again, if you support Bush's tax plan, which is officially posted on the White House website advocating the $1,000 tax credit welfare, then YOU support it.
Doubling the child tax credit to $1,000 per child and applying the credit to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT);
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazJohn
The parents must take personal responibility for their children.
Private charities, churches, family, and other civic organizations, the way it was done and is being done.
This is personal to me. I used to feel the same way as you, but that wasn't what happened when my niece died from Leukemia at the age of 5 last year.
My sister had a job without health insurance. She had to sell her home to pay for the treatments. I had to take out a Home Equity Loan to help her, also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmaznJohn
I don't know how you have come to determine this. The health care industry is such a monster that providing it for the poor, as you proposed,
would increase the size of the federal government far above any savings you could find.
This is a hypothetical idea, but my idea states that we would audit the Federal Government and cut enough programs and Bureacracratic Positions to be able to pay for it and increase to a budget surplus.
I would also be willing to cut ALL WELFARE Programs. The person would qualify for the Health Care Coverage only if they had a job and made less than $10.00 an hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazjohn
That was until I heard the details of your plans.
I didn't tell you to get out of the LP. I simply asked you to change your name or quit promoting policies that are contrary to libertarianism.
See above.
John quit taking yourself so seriously. My plan is hypothetical. My hypothetical plan states to cut so much fat from the Federal Government that we can have a budget surplus and fund the programs.
And like I said I would be willing to cut all Welfare Programs and trade it with the Health Care System for the poor.
Again these are IDEAS and it's personal for me. I am a Libertarian.
YOU are getting personal by telling me to change my username. I will NOT.
Again, what's YOUR IDEA John? Saying it's the parents responsibility is irrational. So the children should pay the price because their parents make $8.00 an hour and can't afford Health Care?
Like I said before I would be willing to Cut all Welfare Programs and trade it for a Health Care System to help poor children whose parents have to hold a job and make under $10 an hour.
It is funny - you keep reading about - government stay out of our lives, individual initiative, roll up your sleeves, my grandaddy in the Great Depression, blah blah blah.
Not everyone can own a company. Company workers are needed too, or the owner is out of luck. Someone has to scrub the toilet bowls. People are born in this country on an unequal playing field. Some get the good education, the automatic networks, the job waiting for them. Others get broken families and awful school systems. They end up working darn hard cleaning those toilets, two shifts. Meanwhile they get no health insurance or benefits, they are never home to help their kids because they need to pay for food, and the cycle continues.
They hardly pay taxes beacuse they hardly receive income. But whatever you do - don't give them any public assistance. Let them starve, it will build character. What a crock.
Apparently from this point of view the parents making only $8 per hour do not have sufficient incentive or skill to make more money so withdrawing their health care should punish them and their children for their deficiencies. At least that would decrease their numbers.
Please remember that a Heath Insurance system does not protect health because the care is provided anyway as few are callus enough to deny it and the care is mandated by law (IIRC). Health Insurance protects a person’s wealth from the depredations of a commercial medical industry.
Not everyone can own a company. Company workers are needed too, or the owner is out of luck. Someone has to scrub the toilet bowls. People are born in this country on an unequal playing field. Some get the good education, the automatic networks, the job waiting for them. Others get broken families and awful school systems. They end up working darn hard cleaning those toilets, two shifts. Meanwhile they get no health insurance or benefits, they are never home to help their kids because they need to pay for food, and the cycle continues.
They hardly pay taxes beacuse they hardly receive income. But whatever you do - don't give them any public assistance. Let them starve, it will build character. What a crock.
You're right that, logistically, everyone cannot own a company. However, everyone has that opportunity. If one is unhappy cleaning toilets, go back to the school you once avoided, accept your responsibilities as a parent, get a better, higher wage job and quit asking for handouts.
Most of the ideas are good ones. The problem with most of the list is twofold: First of all, much of it is subjective. Secondly, even a good idea begs the question, "How you gonna do it?"
Specifically:
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Government efficiency is key to well run essential services, like schools and police departments, without passing excessive debt on to the American. No excessive spending.
Define "excessive." What is "excessive?" For that matter, what are "essential" services? Get two people to agree on that, and you get a gold star.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Abortion should be generally banned, but allowed in the exception of teen pregnancy or certain issues.
If abortion is wrong and immoral so that it should be "generally banned," why is it okay for teens? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Illegal immigration of any form should be stopped,and all illegals should be sent home, but a well thought out migrant worker program will allow us continue to benefit from the cheaper labor, without leaving the problems here.
Lots of problems here. Of course illegal immigration should be stopped. How ya gonna do it? How are you going to send millions of illegals home? How are you going to prevent them from getting back in? And does no one see an inherent moral dilemma in using migrant labor just to save money? What happened to worker ethics in this country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*No more partisan division of the United States, uniting as Americans
And what does that mean exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Owning a gun is up to you, but a well thought out crime fighting program will get the guns out of the hands of those who acquired them illegally. Money to fund the program will be achieved by...
How are you going to get the guns out of the hands of those who acquired them illegally?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Legalization of Cannabis, reducing a layer of violent crime and putting less stress on the criminal justice system. Legal or not legal, peoples morals do not change. That, plus it would actually make it more difficult for teens to purchase pot. Do you think drug dealers card under 18?Employers could continue to drug test and reject employees that smoke pot. Fines would be charged to those who smoke pot in public, though, including in public parks.
Good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Envrionmental standards will be increased, all cars in the U.S will achieve at least 25 MPG on the highway. All cars will require partial-zero emissions.
Great idea. How you gonna do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Gay marrige, I say do whatever you want, legalized.
Gay marriage is okay. But "do whatever you want" ??? So if my wacko neighbor wants to marry the pink flamingo in his lawn, that's okay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*Legalization of tazer guns. If you really want to keep your self safe from crime, all you need is a tazer. Stop the criminal, don't kill the criminal. Maybe he will learn his lesson and turn for the better.
Honestly, this was news to me. I thought they were legal already. Are they not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
*A criminal justice system that promotes character building, rather then todays revolving door. Control crime at it's source.
Great idea. How you gonna do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fort lauderdale
Would you join this party?
Not without a lot more specifics.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
