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Based on what obama and the dems said it WOULD do, we can say with certainty that it has failed.
Wrong. I accept that it did not meet up to their expectations but you cannot say with any certainty that it failed unless you know with equal certainty what would have happened had there been no stimulus.
Like Krugman and other economists have argued, the stimulus simply wasn't large enough (pretty much a drop in the bucket percentage-wise compared to US GDP) to have any appreciable effect. He need to spend, MUCH, MUCH, more in order to get REAL results...
Wrong. I accept that it did not meet up to their expectations but you cannot say with any certainty that it failed unless you know with equal certainty what would have happened had there been no stimulus.
False. Never before have we tried to measure "what would have happened...if". But since obama needs help getting his butt out of the fire, these new "metrics", a job "saved", "funded", and what would have happened if, are now being deployed by a desperate Left.
People aren't buying it, cause it's BS.
If the stimulus met NONE of the goals set out, it FAILED....miserably.
Since it's passage, we have LOST 2.4 million jobs, the UE rate has risen from 7.2% to 9.5%. There is your evidence of failure.
Based on what obama and the dems said it WOULD do, we can say with certainty that it has failed.
Anyone with a common bit of sense, can take a look around, and see with certainty, no it has not worked. I said a common bit of sense, but the sheeple seem to have none. The wittle sheeple have bit off much more then they can chew.
You cannot claim that the stimulus is a failure because nobody knows what might have happened had there been no stimulus. Who knows, things could have been much much worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
You can't claim the stimulus was sucessful either. Without it unemployment may be much lower than with it. Who knows, things could have been much better.
While they may not be known to or understood by most people, there are in fact ways to model and measure what would have happened in the absence of a stimulus bill, and there are thousands of people who work on exactly such things as the bulk of their professional lives, whether in government, business, or academia.
With regard specifically to the stimulus, major analysis shops are in agreement. CEA, CBO, the Fed, Moody's, Goldman Sachs, IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers...all of them are in the very same ballpark in concluding that the stimulus has resulted in there being three million jobs plus in the economy today that wouldn't have been there but for the stimulus, and that in the neighborhood of 2.0% has been added by it to quarterly GDP growth rates.
People can blow all that off on the grounds that they don't understand it, but they don't understand how the time of sunrise and sunset or high and low tides are calculated either, yet most people do put some faith in those.
There is much to be said of NOT adding $1+ trillion to the debt by way of the stimulus. The situation would have been much better without it an ill-conceived, RUSHED, massive piece of spending.
I suppose someone has to speak up for the Martian School of economics. As for the stimulus, formal development of it was begun in September 2008. Hundreds of people worked on it. If Bush's plans for the Invasion and Occupation of Iraq had been as patiently and carefully laid out, things might have gone a little better in that unwarranted endeavor.
NONSENSE. Based on what obama and the dems said it WOULD do, we can say with certainty that it has failed.
They said it would save or create more than three million jobs by the end of this year. Check. They said it would bring needed relief to American families most directly affected by the Great Bush Recession. Check. They said it would provide a shock to the economy to head it back in a positive direction. Check. They said unemployment would peak earlier and at a lower level with stimuls package than without one. Check.
The only thing about the stimulus that has failed are the vaccuous arguments of its blind and stubborn critics, primarily a bunch of people who are motivated by partisan principles exclusively.
They said it would save or create more than three million jobs by the end of this year. Check. They said it would bring needed relief to American families most directly affected by the Great Bush Recession. Check. They said it would provide a shock to the economy to head it back in a positive direction. Check. They said unemployment would peak earlier and at a lower level with stimuls package than without one. Check.
The only thing about the stimulus that has failed are the vaccuous arguments of its blind and stubborn critics, primarily a bunch of people who are motivated by partisan principles exclusively.
Sorry, no way to measure jobs "saved" or created. Just estimates and a wide range at that. 1.4 - 3 million. And do remember the unreliability of those jobs numbers, remember the man in charge said he could NOT verify ANY of the numbers. Check.
The needed relief has not shown up to the normal, everyday worker. It did however boost his union buddies. Needed relief = the LOSS of 2.4 million jobs since enacted? Check.
Positive direction in the economy? Have you seen the latest economic indicators? The new jobless claims are higher now than they were 6 months ago. We LOST jobs the last two months after a slight up tick. Positive direction? Check.
They claimed UE would NOT rise above 8% WITH the stimulus. The reality - it has risen to 9.5% WITH the stimulus, more than they said it would rise WITHOUT the stimulus. Now, add in those 2.5 MILLION that have dropped OFF the rolls...... Check.
Virtually all the pundits, analysis, polls, people say it has failed. Check, check, check.
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