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Well, yeah... No one is disputing that anyone born in England is an English subject, according to English law.
Not just an English subject. A natural born English subject.
And as the Supreme Court went on to say, (and I quote) "The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established."
Your opinion. I disagree, and I've produced plenty of evidence to support my position.
But not the evidence you need.
You cannot demonstrate a single example of where de Vattel ever used the phrase "natural born citizen."
You cannot demonstrate a single English translation of de Vattel containing the phrase that existed less than ten years too late to have influenced Article 2 of the Constitution.
You cannot demonstrate a single Framer or Founder who ever even quoted de Vattel on any issue having anything to do with citizenship.
You cannot demonstrate a single example of any definition of natural born citizen in the English language other than that of English common law.
Not just an English subject. A natural born English subject.
And as the Supreme Court went on to say, (and I quote) "The same rule was in force in all the English Colonies upon this continent down to the time of the Declaration of Independence, and in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution as originally established."
The Constitution requires a natural born citizen of the U.S., not a natural born English subject.
Many people do get a memorabilia certificate from the hospital... the one with the little footprints on it. But that's not a legal document. It's just a keepsake.
The legal documents we get are all certified copies of part of the reference "document" maintained by the State.
I highlight "part of" because 100% of all the certified birth certificate issued in this country are "short forms," I.e. only part of the "document" maintained by the State. Even photocopies with the signature of the attending physician are only the top part of a much longer form with a vast amount of other medical and demographic information. The current standard form looks like this:
I also put "document" in quotation marks because many states no longer maintain the "long form" documents at all in paper form. For example, in Hawaii since about 2001, hospitals submit electronic data to the state and not paper documents at all.
recently I had to get a passport. The short state form was rejected. So I had to go back to the hospital of birth and have them give me the long form
The Constitution requires a natural born citizen of the U.S., not a natural born English subject.
Back to Wong Kim Ark... a decision that it is suprising you still apparently have never gotten around to reading.
Quote:
Subject and citizen are, in a degree, convertible terms as applied to natives, and though the term citizen seems to be appropriate to republican freemen, yet we are, equally with the inhabitants of all other countries, subjects, for we are equally bound by allegiance and subjection to the government and law of the land.
Which never mentions natural born citizenship once.
Quote:
Benjamin Franklin's letter to Dumas,
Which never mentions citizenship at all.
Quote:
the Congressional Record,
Which never mentions Vattel and citizenship in the same breath.
Quote:
and the link to the work by Breckenridge Long I posted.
A man born a century too late to have any authority whatsoever on the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
I believe that trumps your unsubstantiated opinion.
But it does not trump the United States Supreme Court.
Now come on, IC. I was generous enough to spell out the four categories of evidence that would really count. In case you missed them, here they are again.
A single example of where de Vattel ever used the phrase "natural born citizen."
A single English translation of de Vattel containing the phrase that existed less than ten years too late to have influenced Article 2 of the Constitution.
A single Framer or Founder who ever even quoted de Vattel on any issue having anything to do with citizenship.
A single example of any definition of natural born citizen in the English language other than that of English common law.
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