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Old 09-01-2010, 02:21 PM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,836,416 times
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One might wonder IF the purpose of the ' WTC Mosque ' is to promoted peace and tolerance,why those behind it are still pushing ahead when it is causing such an uproar and intolerance....
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Old 09-01-2010, 02:26 PM
 
30,023 posts, read 18,596,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Term "victory mosque" - inflammatory

And building a monument over 3,000 corpses to a movement that resulted in the deaths of those citizens is not?

The Muslims have built "victory mosques" everywhere they have conquered the "infidels" and this is just another one. From a religion that promotes violent conquest of other lands and faiths- who would expect anything else?
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Old 09-01-2010, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,293 posts, read 84,292,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
And building a monument over 3,000 corpses to a movement that resulted in the deaths of those citizens is not?

The Muslims have built "victory mosques" everywhere they have conquered the "infidels" and this is just another one. From a religion that promotes violent conquest of other lands and faiths- who would expect anything else?
Why do you think there are 3,000 corpses on Park Place?

OK, I realize that you used that phrase for dramatic effect, but it's lame and inaccurate. You also have a skewed version of history going on there. It's been gone over ad nauseum on these threads. Muslims as a group haven't been doing a heck of a lot of conquering for some centuries now.

A boring, rectangular glass building standing only 13 stories high and maybe 100 feet wide two blocks from this: http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html
and this: http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/progress.html does not amount to a conquest by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:45 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,565,345 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/ny...e&ref=nyregion

A group of teenagers in western New York has been accused of harassing members of a mosque by yelling obscenities and insults during evening prayers for Ramadan, sideswiping a worshiper with a vehicle and firing a shotgun outside, the authorities said Tuesday.

<snip>

Mr. Vendetti, who is accused of firing the shotgun, was also charged with criminal possession of a weapon and faces up to four years in prison if convicted, Mr. Cardone said.

Asked about the motive, Mr. Cardone said the teenagers used “very poor judgment.”

“It’s just kids doing stupid things,” he said, “but it got more serious when they ran into a member of the mosque and they discharged a weapon. And we are taking it seriously.”


How's that for religious tolerance in the US?
At least they caught the criminals.
And if some youths did this to a Nazi cultural center how would you react? Would you condemn them just the same way you are now?
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:47 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,565,345 times
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In fact - Christian chuches and Jewish synagogues are defaced all the time and no liberal minds at all.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:58 PM
 
30,023 posts, read 18,596,563 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Why do you think there are 3,000 corpses on Park Place?

OK, I realize that you used that phrase for dramatic effect, but it's lame and inaccurate. You also have a skewed version of history going on there. It's been gone over ad nauseum on these threads. Muslims as a group haven't been doing a heck of a lot of conquering for some centuries now.

A boring, rectangular glass building standing only 13 stories high and maybe 100 feet wide two blocks from this: http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html
and this: The New World Trade Center: Rebuilding the Future does not amount to a conquest by any stretch of the imagination.

So, if the location has no relevence,

1. why not sell the property, make a huge killing on the profit, and build three mosques for the price of one?

2. why not expand the over 100 mosques in New York City?

3. Why was there not a mosque in that area before? Because 3,000 Americans were killed there, does it now hold some significance to those who practice Islam? Are they blood thirsty?

4. Why not take the mayor's offer of free state property?

It is a Muslim victory mosque, like many before it. The only reason Islam has been halted in thier zeal for conquest over the last 500 years was that European culture achieved military and academic supremecy, preventing further spread. Until recently, the American-European world has not been hampered by the insanity of liberalism and political correctness, which craves the embrace of cultural and national suicide which Islam is eager to deliver.
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:21 PM
 
20,260 posts, read 19,847,317 times
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If they're found guilty of criminal activity, lock 'em up.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,293 posts, read 84,292,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
So, if the location has no relevence,

1. why not sell the property, make a huge killing on the profit, and build three mosques for the price of one?

2. why not expand the over 100 mosques in New York City?

3. Why was there not a mosque in that area before? Because 3,000 Americans were killed there, does it now hold some significance to those who practice Islam? Are they blood thirsty?

4. Why not take the mayor's offer of free state property?

It is a Muslim victory mosque, like many before it. The only reason Islam has been halted in thier zeal for conquest over the last 500 years was that European culture achieved military and academic supremecy, preventing further spread. Until recently, the American-European world has not been hampered by the insanity of liberalism and political correctness, which craves the embrace of cultural and national suicide which Islam is eager to deliver.
Please don't put words in my mouth (or fingertips) that I didn't say. That particular sleazy tactic commonly found on forums annoys me no end. Thank you.

I did not say the location has no relevance. I do believe it does, but not in the way you wish it to be. I've come to the disappointing realization that most Americans are not interested nor do they care about what is actually being built at the World Trade Center site, so it may be hard for some to grasp the concept, but I'll give it a shot. Lower Manhattan right now is a place of rebirth centered around an enormous 16-acre construction site that runs from sixty feet below grade to 1776 feet above. It's apparent that this imam, who, as all are aware by now, has been working with interreligious groups and politics in the city of New York for more than 25 years, chose the downtown location because it fits in with his policy of Americanization of Muslims and outreach across religious lines. Since that is exactly the kind of multicultural place the World Trade Center WAS and will be again, it's not hard to see where that fits. Unless of course you cannot get your mind off concepts like "victory" and "bloodthirstiness", but bear in mind that those are entirely the conjecture of the opponents of the mosque and their Internet sites and YouTube videos, not based on anything in the history of the ASMA organization itself. It does not appear from your post that you have read any of the articles written about the imam or his organization that were published long before Community Board 1 approved the plans in May. It's easy enough. Try the New York Times articles or the ASMA website itself. If you are relying on the Enquirer-like NY Post for "information", then you are making a foolish error.

I don't get why you posted some of your other statements. The information you are wrongly stating has been pointed out numerous times on these threads. There HAS been a mosque in the area for more than 30 years, about 10 blocks from the WTC. No connection to either of the WTC attacks was ever established, and trust me, there are people a hell of a lot smarter than you or I checking out that sort of thing. The area likely does hold some significance for Muslims because 3000 Americans were killed there. A few hundred of those Americans were Muslims, and their families are still grieving just like the Jews, Hindus, Christians and atheists whose loved ones died that day. The act was carried by terrorists who used their belief that Americans are out to destroy Islam as their excuse. Muslims who do not believe that Americans are out to destroy Islam and who in fact ARE Americans themselves felt the sting of prejudice and worse in the days that followed, even when they loudly condemned the acts.

As to why Rauf doesn't expand another mosque in the city--first of all, one of the NY Times articles clearly demonstrates how the Upper East Side JCC was the model for this mosque/community center. There is no other facility like it in the city except for YMCAs and the JCCs. Further, this congregation is of Sufi Muslims, the mystical and ascetic branch of Islam. Most other mosques in the city are not that type of Islam, so your question is akin to saying "Why doesn't that Pentecostal Church just expand onto one of the Catholic Churches in the city since there are already so many of them?"

It was the governor of New York State who offered the alternate location, not the mayor. The mayor supports the mosque, partly because of the childhood experience of his family not being welcome to live in certain American neighborhoods because they were Jews.

Lastly, do not be so quick to attribute support for the mosque to political correctness. I have explained several times on here why I think they should be allowed to build, and it has nothing to do with being PC. Nor would anyone ever consider me a "liberal", another silly term associated with this debate. On 9/11, I saw up close and personal what hatred by one group against another group can do. Suffice it to say that what the rest of you saw on TV that day looks like a cartoon to me when I see the videotapes. Hate and misunderstanding and assumptions of guilt against one another will never get us anywhere. Education is good.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,146,060 times
Reputation: 4957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You miss the point just as much as the OP did.
It appears that reading comprehension is a lost arte here.

Let me break it down for you sentence by sentence.

Quote:
Ever since the start of the big mosque/community center debate, there have been more reports of anti-muslim and anti-islam violence.
Translation: Since the mosque debate started, more media attention has been placed on anti-muslim and anti-islam violence.


Quote:
Though, I'm not sure how the mosque/community center issue has affected the occurence of these events statistically.
Translation: I don't quite think that the actual rate has increased. It's just getting more media attentions.

Quote:
Sounds to me these "teenagers" were merely looking for somebody to pick on - and they should be charged as criminals.
Translation: These kids were stupid.

Quote:
If it was a church or synagogue, I'd feel the same way.. there are just things you don't do. Screwing with somebody's place of worship is one of them.
Translation: Though I'm completely areligious, I have respect for all faiths and their places of worship.


As for your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
The teenagers were morons. That does not make all Americans racists as the OP repeatedly implies.
If the OP implies something you don't agree with, you can easily debate the topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You proved my point. One cannot criticize Islam in the United States. Meanwhile American Muslims are free to write the most outrageous nonsense about other religions. Go read the freedom house report on the hatred that spews there if you dare.
I don't see where any point was proven. People are free to criticize Islam as much as they want. However, vandalizing a mosque is not the right way to go about things. When it comes to the big mosque debate, I've stated numerous times that I agree the building choice was in bad taste, but that doesn't mean that you or I or anyone else should take away a group's constitutional rights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Better yet move to Saudi Arabia because you'd clearly feel at home being a dhimmi there. Anti-Islamic feelings are brought about because of official worldwide Islamic policies that promote hatred against non-Muslims. Those policies are right here at home where the very idiot who wants to place a big giant mosque across from 9-11 defends scum like Hamas.
Interesting how it resorts to getting personal. Let's stick to the topic, eh?

I'm not defending their choice of building. Let me repeat: I don't like or approve of their choice of building. However, I cannot ever agree that removing somebody's constitutional rights just because somebody is butthurt.

But back to the topic of these teenagers: What they did was an isolated incident that is a statistical rarity. The reason it is probably being reported to the news media - was because it was a mosque in New York City. Either way, they should be prosecuted per the laws of the city and state.

And if anyone thinks that what these kids did was right... well, then it shows how much emotion clouds one's judgements.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:55 AM
 
Location: The ICT, KS
124 posts, read 173,605 times
Reputation: 75
Silly Muzzies, religious freedom in this country means you're free to choose to worship Christ however you want.
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