Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am not a huge union supporter only because most of the people running unions have a collectivism view on politics and economics.
On the other hand I can understand those who are looking to work shouldnt have to worry about losing their job to people working for a bowl of rice. No pay cut is going to help an American worker over the chineese.
American "companies" are no longer interested in american production at home. American Companies have no pride in the American ideas and or even the Spirit of America. WHY?
Because they believe they are globalist. If America closed shop they would move anywhere else.
The CEO and management a long time ago when other companies abandoned the american worker they never said why.
Sure we can blame the unions for some of the issues but in the end it was about cheap labor and market opened up to the rest of the world.
I dont mean a 2 dollar and hour difference I am talking about a 30 or 40 per hour difference.
So when you open that market in cheap labor the American jumped ship and never looked back because they never held the princples of American ideas.
So the proposed solution of globalist is to lower the standards and pay to the third world nations to get jobs back in the united states.
I say remove all taxes for companies who employee at home, I say tax imports, I say give an American company a reason to say home.
I dont want to punish those who go outside the united states I do want to make it easier to stay in the united states.
I also say END ALL FOREIGN AID to other countries.
First we are broke
Second our tax dollars are not to be used to build other nations so they can have factories, bridges, etc at our expense.
I am not a huge union supporter only because most of the people running unions have a collectivism view on politics and economics.
On the other hand I can understand those who are looking to work shouldnt have to worry about losing their job to people working for a bowl of rice. No pay cut is going to help an American worker over the chineese.
American "companies" are no longer interested in american production at home. American Companies have no pride in the American ideas and or even the Spirit of America. WHY?
Because they believe they are globalist. If America closed shop they would move anywhere else.
The CEO and management a long time ago when other companies abandoned the american worker they never said why.
Sure we can blame the unions for some of the issues but in the end it was about cheap labor and market opened up to the rest of the world.
I dont mean a 2 dollar and hour difference I am talking about a 30 or 40 per hour difference.
So when you open that market in cheap labor the American jumped ship and never looked back because they never held the princples of American ideas.
So the proposed solution of globalist is to lower the standards and pay to the third world nations to get jobs back in the united states.
I say remove all taxes for companies who employee at home, I say tax imports, I say give an American company a reason to say home.
I dont want to punish those who go outside the united states I do want to make it easier to stay in the united states.
I also say END ALL FOREIGN AID to other countries.
First we are broke
Second our tax dollars are not to be used to build other nations so they can have factories, bridges, etc at our expense.
Here here, I'm all for this. But realize that you are asking Government to force private sector change. So these good ideas will not happen under Republican leadership. [certainly no Republicans we've seen for many decades]
As industry and investment have been globalized we need to globalize unions. We need to put real International in our International Unions. Where are the Wobblies when we need them?
It would be quite ironic if China not only leads the US in manufacturing, R&D, IT and so on, but also in union membership and employee/worker class consciousness.
Here here, I'm all for this. But realize that you are asking Government to force private sector change. So these good ideas will not happen under Republican leadership. [certainly no Republicans we've seen for many decades]
Goverment has the right to lower or remove taxes it has the right to tax imports coming into our country. I'm not saying increase any taxes if you leave.
Im tired of trying to force them to stay or punish with heavy taxes won't fix it either. So I think giving them reasons to stay might be better and make it more expense to buy something not built here. :-)
As industry and investment have been globalized we need to globalize unions. We need to put real International in our International Unions. Where are the Wobblies when we need them?
Actually I dont think we have fully globalized and how can you force people into unions. Japan was built up by the united states government, as well as many other government "relations" after wars which have hurt us.
Also the fact that we support miltary for most of europe and we have 700 bases and in 130 countries. We also spend alot of money on foreign aid of which their governments keep for themselves and continue the oppression. The govenrment is bent on globalism and socialism ideas and has been for a very long time.
These trade deals were created by the govenrment which hurt the american worker and the american tax payer at the expense of our jobs and standard of living to bring it the levels of third world nations.
Nafta, Cafta, and the WTO
This comes from government not free markets and unions will not fix the trade deals set that make it impossible for American workers to change to markets and our governments interaction on labor wages.
Last edited by LibertyandJusticeforAll; 09-01-2010 at 09:38 AM..
As industry and investment have been globalized we need to globalize unions. We need to put real International in our International Unions. Where are the Wobblies when we need them?
Here is the problem. For a worker in China, India and other high growth countries around the world their wages and standard of living is growing and they are happy with the changes they are experiencing. They are COMPETING with American workers and quite frankly whipping their asses in terms of providing profitability and productivity for domestic and international corporations. Their lifestyles are getting better why should they help American workers, who never really gave a *** about them before?
Actually I dont think we have fully globalized and how can you force people into unions. Japan was built up by the united states government, as well as many other government "relations" after wars which have hurt us.
Also the fact that we support miltary for most of europe and we have 700 bases and in 130 countries. We also spend alot of money on foreign aid of which their governments keep for themselves and continue the oppression. The govenrment is bent on globalism and socialism ideas and has been for a very long time.
These trade deals were created by the govenrment which hurt the american worker and the american tax payer at the expense of our jobs and standard of living to bring it the levels of third world nations.
Nafta, Cafta, and the WTO
This comes from government not free markets and unions will not fix the trade deals set that make it impossible for American workers to change to markets and our governments interaction on labor wages.
Liberty, I think you're overlooking one glaring fact.
Its the rigged, not "free" markets that determine government policy with their campaign contributions and lobbyists.
Don't you think its odd that it takes tens, sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars to run for office.
This does not just afflict the executive and legislative branches, for the judicial wing is just as bad.
I would recommend checking out the former Senator, Old Man Fritz and his very informative articles.
Unless we deal with the issue of the revolving door between lobbyists and political office along with millionaire races, then yes we'll continue to have government for and by "citizens of the world" corporate CEO's and chairmen of the board who could care less if America becomes a banana republic.
By the way since you brought up Japan, its quite interesting another nation that we rebuilt is doing very well, even better than us, given the circumstances.
So Americans, particularly the Rand/Friedman lovers, how do you account for Germany's success?
"High taxes, heavy regulation, powerful unions and a big welfare state are turnoffs for pretty much any true blue (and especially red) American, but they are also the four cornerstones that have led Germany to its strongest quarter in 20 years.
Today, the world's fourth largest economy in the world confirmed a 2.2 percent GDP growth in the second quarter, a tremendous feat for a developed nation during a global downturn. To compare, America grew 0.6 percent during the same quarter (and similarly, France grew 0.6 percent and Spain by 0.2 percent).
Secondly, the German government has prioritized keeping German workers. Unlike America, for example, Germany still manufactures most of its own goods, so that any export revenue is driven back to the country. A recent New York Timesarticle also highlighted a government-subsidized labor program used to avoid layoffs: "
I am not a huge union supporter only because most of the people running unions have a collectivism view on politics and economics.
Funny seeing how the American trade union movement has been the least ideological trade union movement in the world, in fact the American labor movement was exceptionally adept and combining with the worst aspects of McCarthyism. Oh, well.
Quote:
American Companies have no pride in the American ideas and or even the Spirit of America. WHY? Because they believe they are globalist.
Now there is a revelation. For as long as I can remember whenever I've had a discussion about worker rights, collective bargaining or corporate social responsibility conservatives have always told me the sole responsibility of a corporation was to its shareholders. Corporations aren't "globalist" they are ****ing capitalist, and as capitalist they will seek whatever mix of capital and labor that will produce the greatest amount of profit.
Your problem, like most teabagging libertarian post recession conservatives, is that reality has finally broken through the ideological miasma.
Quote:
The CEO and management a long time ago when other companies abandoned the american worker they never said why.
PROFIT!
Quote:
So when you open that market in cheap labor the American jumped ship and never looked back because they never held the princples of American ideas.
What ideal would that be, since the "American Ideal" has been to make as much as you can, any way that you can, whether it was legal, ethical or patriotic! Damn the worker, damn the environment and damn the consumer!
Quote:
So the proposed solution of globalist is to lower the standards and pay to the third world nations to get jobs back in the united states.
That isn't a solution, that is Econ 100, a choice between two relatively equal products, in this case the price of labor, the cheaper product will gain greater market share until such a time that competitor lower their price to the point that the cost for labor approached equilibrium
Quote:
I say remove all taxes for companies who employee at home, I say tax imports, I say give an American company a reason to say home.
Without discussing the negative effects on revenue such a proposal will reap, you better be damned sure that the tax savings equals the savings in labor cost, which I doubt that they will. FYI Nike spends $3.50 per $140 paid for a pair of Air Jordans. As for taxing imports... well you have a few major problems, one of which is that because American companies abandoned production of rare earth metals due to lack of profit. Rare earth metals are those that are critical for computer manufacturing, certain weapons system fabrication and alternative energy. Realizing this gap, the Chinese government placed heavy investment in mining and manufacturing and now has a virtual monopoly on this commodity. if you want to start a trade war by effectively placing a tariff on imported goods, guess who is going to be on the losing end? Well at least until teabagging libertarian pro capitalist figure out that a national industrial policy like China, or Singapore is the key to promoting a sustainable and vibrant economy.
Quote:
Second our tax dollars are not to be used to build other nations so they can have factories, bridges, etc at our expense.
Are you actually implying the heretical idea that we should be using tax dollars to revamp our infrastructure, invest in new technologies, and spur capital formations to employ American workers?
As industry and investment have been globalized we need to globalize unions. We need to put real International in our International Unions. Where are the Wobblies when we need them?
I've made this argument since the early 80's. Fair trade must be accompanied by the unfettered right of workers to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining. Any trade agreement which doesn't enforce the rights of foreign workers to collectively bargain should be subject to trade tariffs. Such an agreement would preclude any subsequent trade war because it would be a violation of any "free trade" agreement.
It may be too late for such an agreement, but that would be my suggestion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
