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Old 09-08-2010, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Planet Eaarth
8,954 posts, read 20,681,743 times
Reputation: 7193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granny Sue View Post
Why do you assume every American agrees with this? No one in their right mind would do that.
I for one do NOT believe that this is right....we have Freedom of religion in the country for a reason. One can't just pick and choose which one is allowed and which one isn't.

So please don't speak for me...I'm ashamed to be associatied with people who think they do.
No one ever said that ALL Americans support book burnings. However, not enough people push back on insane book burning to stop them.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:24 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,372 posts, read 9,312,855 times
Reputation: 7364
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
He is not being violent, nor threatening violence, let alone killing people.

You are trying to equate distatesful behavior/actions which he is doing with outright threats of violence and murder!

how low can you sink?
Not as low as someone who tries to put words in other people's mouths.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,880 posts, read 15,198,564 times
Reputation: 5240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal is a mess View Post
The inbred, back water redneck will either back down or will be stopped by the government/law enforcement.

After watching the rambling ignorant press conference he just gave, announcing that the burning will go ahead, it's obvious he's just lapping up his 'glory moment'.

what a bigoted and racist remark you just made. just because this man wants to use his freedom of expression in his own way, you fault him his right to do so, how bigoted can you be.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,169,951 times
Reputation: 4957
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
People hurt or killed in the Thaeater example are hurt and killed unntentionally due to. Panic, not homicidal rage due to religion
You immediately assumed that a panic would arise from yelling "FIRE" in a crowd. And you assumed that people could potentially be hurt or killed as a direct result of that person's actions. You assumed it, because you know it to be true.

We now have military heads from two countries - ours and Canada - that say that this is stupid, childish, and is only going to make things worse. If there are already increasingly violent protests in areas where our military has made great strides - does that not serve as a warning or omen? If the minister of god knows that his actions have already started to cause problems... could his actions this Saturday therefore be Reckless Endangerment?

You call it "giving in to muslims"; I call it diplomacy. If you're trying to make peace in a nation, then it's not the best idea to have international attention (and support) on the burning of their sacred text.

A good analogy is that we willingly walked into a den of bears who really don't like us. We gave them salmon and technology... now we're going to destroy something they all hold sacred. Oh, and they have us surrounded in their den.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,416 posts, read 37,001,401 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post


Yes, and his arsenal is bibles. Is he a violent man, is he advocating violence like the muslims you are excusing?

The US refers to itself as the arsenal of democracy....

Lots of people refer to them as soldiers of some cause.

Show me VIOLENCE on HIS part.
WTF is WRONG with your powers of reasoning today?See bolded.
I am not excusing anyone here.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,416 posts, read 37,001,401 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman View Post
Not as low as someone who tries to put words in other people's mouths.
He seems to be doing that a lot today, passive aggressive overdrive.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,239,885 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rita Mordio View Post
You immediately assumed that a panic would arise from yelling "FIRE" in a crowd. And you assumed that people could potentially be hurt or killed as a direct result of that person's actions. You assumed it, because you know it to be true.

We now have military heads from two countries - ours and Canada - that say that this is stupid, childish, and is only going to make things worse. If there are already increasingly violent protests in areas where our military has made great strides - does that not serve as a warning or omen? If the minister of god knows that his actions have already started to cause problems... could his actions this Saturday therefore be Reckless Endangerment?

You call it "giving in to muslims"; I call it diplomacy. If you're trying to make peace in a nation, then it's not the best idea to have international attention (and support) on the burning of their sacred text.

A good analogy is that we willingly walked into a den of bears who really don't like us. We gave them salmon and technology... now we're going to destroy something they all hold sacred. Oh, and they have us surrounded in their den.

Wrong. The people would be injured or die as a result of the panic of others, which would not be a deliberate thing on the part of those in the panic. However, if you upset a muslim, they deliberately act to kill. You're comparing a panic situation ot a deliberate act. They are not comparible..


It would be like you comparing someone sneezing and setting off a guy to someone who delibereately pulled the trigger..

The reality is, you liberals think that muslims can and will be violent as a response to a percieved insult, and thus we must do everything in our power to not insult them because they cannot control themselves, and thus we would be "provoking" them if we did anything to insult them...
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,878,374 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Your logic, and Petraeus' logic is the same as the logic of blaming women for being raped by how they were dressed. You provoked the man, you provoked muslims by offending them. Rather than expect them to control themselves, you were to blame for making him rape you because of how you dressed, or you were responsible for provoking muslims to violence by offending them.





Stop making excuses. Expect muslims to act in a civilized manner and not to engage in violence every time they feel slighted, OR DO YOU BLAME WOMEN FOR BEING RAPED as well?
As someone who's been raped, your attempt to discredit me is extremely offensive. There is no connection between apparel and the motivation for rape. However, attacking people's religious beliefs throughout history has shown itself to be particularly provocative. There certainly is a connection between violence and attacking another person's belief systems, culture, ethnicity, religion and so on. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

This pastor is attacking someone's religion. It's especially egregious that he calls himself a man of religion. His actions could very well lead to an escalation of violence that could result in an American soldier's death.

Again, as regards free speech, the question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about substantive evil.

And you have not been arguing that this pastor's remarks will not cause harm, you've only been arguing that it's not the pastor's fault if harm results from his actions. Unfortunately for you, the law says otherwise. Whether his intent is to cause harm or not, he has been told how and why his actions could cause such harm. He could not reasonably excuse himself if substantive evil did result from his actions.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:30 PM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,241,172 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohKnip View Post
Agreed.



They could, but I haven't heard news that they would and if they don't they are in trouble.
It's probably $200 fine, if they need help paying it I will help pay the fine...
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:32 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,878,374 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by betamanlet View Post
Wrong. The people would be injured or die as a result of the panic of others, which would not be a deliberate thing on the part of those in the panic. However, if you upset a muslim, they deliberately act to kill. You're comparing a panic situation ot a deliberate act. They are not comparible..


It would be like you comparing someone sneezing and setting off a guy to someone who delibereately pulled the trigger..

The reality is, you liberals think that muslims can and will be violent as a response to a percieved insult, and thus we must do everything in our power to not insult them because they cannot control themselves, and thus we would be "provoking" them if we did anything to insult them...
Wrong. From an ethical perspective as well as a legal perspective.
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