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Old 06-29-2007, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
1,174 posts, read 5,905,046 times
Reputation: 1023

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The Supremes are at it again. Their last bit of business before recessing was to accept appeals from two men held indefinitely at Guantanamo.

The case will be heard when the Supremes return to work in autumn.

This could mean the dismantling of the entire detainee policy.
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Old 06-29-2007, 06:30 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,142,512 times
Reputation: 2908
The sooner the better.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:09 PM
 
2,433 posts, read 6,681,204 times
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The Bush Administration has let it leak that they are going to close Gitmo soon anyway. Probably because they saw this case coming. They will probably close it before the next session of the SCOTUS so the case will be mute.

In all likelihood the prisoners will be transfers to a secret base somewhere overseas out of reach of the US courts.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Texas
451 posts, read 836,098 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye48 View Post
The Bush Administration has let it leak that they are going to close Gitmo soon anyway. Probably because they saw this case coming. They will probably close it before the next session of the SCOTUS so the case will be mute.

In all likelihood the prisoners will be transfers to a secret base somewhere overseas out of reach of the US courts.
I hope you are right.

The prisoners there are treated way too well. We need to find a secret "less comfortable" place to send them maybe some of our allies who are not afraid to torture will help.

I think I even heard Michael Moore talking about how good they have it at Gitmo.

Camp Gitmo what a joke.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:30 PM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,142,512 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprinter View Post
I hope you are right.

The prisoners there are treated way too well. We need to find a secret "less comfortable" place to send them maybe some of our allies who are not afraid to torture will help.

I think I even heard Michael Moore talking about how good they have it at Gitmo.

Camp Gitmo what a joke.
Sprinter: And you wondered why I compared your version of an electable candidate's views with armed guards kicking puppies! (see other thread). You want armed guards kicking...people!

Forcibly detained
Removed from the country
No access to family
No access to legal counsel
No formal charges
Placed in sensory deprivation
Waterboarded
Beaten
Threatened
Denied access to toilets
Religious intolerance and degradation
Violently and forcibly fed to stave off suicide
One...two...three...four...five...six years and counting...

If you think the people who have been subjected to these things (some of them teenagers!) need to go someplace "less comfortable", then I can now claim that I have indeed found the darkest corner of the human psyche.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Texas
451 posts, read 836,098 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Sprinter: And you wondered why I compared your version of an electable candidate's views with armed guards kicking puppies! (see other thread). You want armed guards kicking...people!

Forcibly detained
Removed from the country
No access to family
No access to legal counsel
No formal charges
Placed in sensory deprivation
Waterboarded
Beaten
Threatened
Denied access to toilets
Religious intolerance and degradation
Violently and forcibly fed to stave off suicide
One...two...three...four...five...six years and counting...

If you think the people who have been subjected to these things (some of them teenagers!) need to go someplace "less comfortable", then I can now claim that I have indeed found the darkest corner of the human psyche.
Yes I did wonder why you said that about kicking puppies seemed out of left field.

So you think the Gitmo prisoners have been mistreated and deserve better? I am at a loss for words.
Other than to say as much as I have tried I don't think I will ever understand the liberal mind and thats a good thing.
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:03 AM
 
4,410 posts, read 6,142,512 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprinter View Post
Yes I did wonder why you said that about kicking puppies seemed out of left field.

So you think the Gitmo prisoners have been mistreated and deserve better? I am at a loss for words.
Other than to say as much as I have tried I don't think I will ever understand the liberal mind and thats a good thing.
Gitmo prisoners are innocent until proven guilty, or has that concept been conveniently removed in the war on 'terrorism', as well as all the other rights afforded human beings? That opposing inhumane treatment is met with a loss for words is astonishing to me.

I still insist that your version of a 'strong defense' as exemplified in this thread would result in totalitarianism. You haven't shown any hesitation to torture people, nor shown any concern over the police state that would be created. The kicking puppies comparison seems almost "quaint" now (just like the Geneva Conventions, according to White House lawyers).

You question my thought process and you attach a liberal label to me. Apparently only liberals oppose torture? And, apparently, the horrible things we've done to these people are well within the bounds of comprehension!? I don't get that at all. I have to then return the favor: I DO understand the conservative mindset and it's as black as evil's shadow.
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Old 06-30-2007, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Warwick, NY
1,174 posts, read 5,905,046 times
Reputation: 1023
Liberal or conservative or anything else; we should all be opposed to what's happening in Guantanamo because if our government can hold people indefinately, without legal counsel, without habeus corpus, and torture them all because our government labels them as terrorists, then what is that same government willing to do to its own people?

Are they terrorists? We don't know. We only have the government's word for it and I think history proves most conclusively that governments can be wrong. We've gone so far as to violate international treaties our Senate has ratified and the President has signed by holding nationals of other nations. We now have absolutely no moral standing to complain about the human rights of other nations because of Guantanamo.

Either the prisoners are criminals subject to the law or they are prisoners of war. Those are the only choices available to nations who wish to take part in the world as civilized members of it. Either we abide by the laws our government establishes in our name or we do not. There is no netherworld.

Violating such forceful legal protections as those we establish for whomever sets foot on our soil is to destroy the same legal protections we enjoy. Our rights are monolithic and inviolate. The Bill of Rights isn't a List of Suggestions and no person in government has the power to violate them. By protecting the rights of those in Guantanamo, you protect your own rights. This is not a Liberal or Conservative position, it is an American position; laid down by our forefathers and paid for in the hard work, sacrifice, blood, and lives of those boys, men, and women who have fought to keep the Bill of Rights the supreme statement of the value of the common man before the law. To usurp any of those rights out of rage, fear, or greed is to aim a rifle and fire at the Minuteman, at the doughboy, at the GI, at EVERY man, woman, and child who put on a uniform or put themselves in harm's way to guard those freedoms.

You go to Arlington, you go to Normandy, you go to the Arizona, to Boston, to Gettysburg, to Lexington, to Monte Casino, to Iwo Jima, and tell the ghosts of our fallen service men and women how you want to throw away what they gave their lives for.

Then come back and tell us that our supreme law of the land is only something our government of the day can use when it feels like it because I have no doubt those ghosts will whisper in your ear that they were fighting against nations who do precisely what our government is doing now on that little spit of land in Cuba over which Old Glory flies.
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Old 06-30-2007, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Texas
451 posts, read 836,098 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhouse2001 View Post
Gitmo prisoners are innocent until proven guilty, or has that concept been conveniently removed in the war on 'terrorism', as well as all the other rights afforded human beings? That opposing inhumane treatment is met with a loss for words is astonishing to me.

I still insist that your version of a 'strong defense' as exemplified in this thread would result in totalitarianism. You haven't shown any hesitation to torture people, nor shown any concern over the police state that would be created. The kicking puppies comparison seems almost "quaint" now (just like the Geneva Conventions, according to White House lawyers).

You question my thought process and you attach a liberal label to me. Apparently only liberals oppose torture? And, apparently, the horrible things we've done to these people are well within the bounds of comprehension!? I don't get that at all. I have to then return the favor: I DO understand the conservative mindset and it's as black as evil's shadow.

I am confident that those who are being held at Gitmo deserve to be held even if their is a 2% window of error. I am also confident that the conditions at Gitmo are not bad.

Some may say

"Sprinter what if that so called but ridiculously low 2% you speak of were you or your loved ones?"

If so that would be a bad thing but over all keeping the real terrorist thugs out of action is the greater good.

I have no doubt that this is one of the reasons we have not been hit with a major terrorist attack since 9-11

Terrorists are not covered by the Geneva Conventions last time I checked.

I think no I'm sure you and I have vastly different ideas about what has been done to the Gitmo terrorists.

Speaking of torture, being a liberal have you ever thought about how horrible it must feel to be ripped out of your mothers womb? Sometimes legs and arms get pulled off or worse in the process and somethimes they baby even survives.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,026 posts, read 24,642,105 times
Reputation: 20165
Congratulations ! It is reassuring to see that finally evidence and proof against the detainees in Guantanamo has been discovered ! I am just so glad , please forward the EVIDENCE ( any shred of it would be great considering the failure of the US government so far , despite millions of dollars and 6 years to do so) to the President of the USA and the Supreme court. I think they will be highly relieved that at last such evidence has been found. I was starting to think that our democratic process had been highjacked and ignored but Phew ! now I do feel better...

To recap :
The Taliban and other Muslim fundamentalists have an ideology based on the complete lack of even the most basic of human rights and would not hesitate to torture , murder and maim innocent people without any proof of guilt and also have no inclination to give women any rights such as abortion and the right tot heir own bodies ? Granted. That we do all know. It is quite a well established facts and even liberal freaks like myself would never deny that human rights and freedom for women are not high on the agenda of and pretty non existent for those Muslim who chose to be fanatics.
Now I wonder what other category of people has similar viewpoints ? Ignore basic human rights ( such as the need to prove a case against an accused and the right to legal representation) , treat women like cattle with no rights to their bodies or making their own decisions , I'm sure the answer will come to me soon ?

Last edited by Mooseketeer; 07-01-2007 at 06:41 AM..
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