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Old 09-13-2010, 05:43 PM
 
15,140 posts, read 8,673,964 times
Reputation: 7486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
What a crock.

All these $250,000 earners are exactly the people who benefit from our inflationary monetary system. All these $250,000 earners are the ones who are benefitting from this "bailout" and this "quantitative easing".

The people who pay for it, are all the people who earn their wages in U.S. Dollars.

Our national financial system, including an equitable system of taxation, is absolutely my business as an american.
While I understand your points and where you are coming from ... I have to tell you that the problems and the beneficiaries of the ponzi scheme you have identified are not the $250K earners. These "earners" may be fortunate enough to have capitalized on the system to a degree, but the true beneficiaries measure their gains in Millions and Billions ... not hundreds of thousands.

You certainly see the problems correctly, but are misidentifying the culprits .. why? Because the culprits have done a very good job of creating this illusion for you to chase.

The reality is that the top 1/2 of the top 1% are raking in Hundreds of Billions ... the bottom half of that top 1% ... Hundreds of Millions ... and neither group shoulder any debt burden or tax burden whatsoever.

The $250kers having actually broken into the top 2% category are simply proof of just how poor the other 98% have gotten as the top 1% have pillaged and plundered the rest of the country into bankruptcy and financial slavery.

As this once great middle class America is destroyed entirely .... with the last ones being the $250kers, there will be only the Millionaire/Billionaire Madison Avenue crowd, and the rest of us. And taxing those $250kers won't do us a lick of good ... they are a very small bunch, and if you taxed them at 100% ... it wouldn't even register on the economic scale.

But I do think we should do the following:

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and declare the debt to them null and void under RICO statutes. Seize their assets, and create the United States Central Bank under the authority of US Treasury Department and congress as it was meant to be. Re-issue United States constitutional currency pegged to gold and silver. Terminate the IRS, and create a new Revenue Authority under the control of the United States Central Bank and US Treasury.

Institute a new Federal Tax system that is constitutionally compliant, which would eliminate personal income tax on wages and earnings, and apply tax liabilities to which the constitution requires but is not being done now ... read: tax foreign commerce ... all of the Multinational Corporations that now pay no tax whatsoever ... as well as all incomes generated from foreign commerce.

Consider constitutional amendments that would: permanently prohibit running budget deficits that exceed 15% of the REAL GDP, and not the phony cooked books GDP they use now; require import export trade balance, and prohibit a trade deficit with any country that exceeds 20%. And, consider, and leave up to general referendum by state, a new flat income tax of 10% on personal income profit that exempts each individual 2.5 times the current Cost of Living Index upfront. That way, everyone lives as a free person ... and those who who are fortunate enough to reap sizable gains well above the high averages, can contribute to the general welfare fund for those disabled and unable to care for themselves.

Apply generous tax exemptions directly proportional to a corporation's United States employment numbers, penalizing offshore manufacturing and production and rewarding onshore work and production ... (You'd see Millions of jobs and manufacturing plants popping up all over).

Recall troops and shut down bases in the 140 countries currently running our budget into the ground, and reduce military spending by 70%, with returning service personnel to be incorporated back into the civilian infrastructure-peace time workforce. Maintain rapid deployment troops, current air defenses, and navy at 50% of current numbers (they aren't needed, when you have the capability to take out entire countries with nuclear weaponry if threatened by them).

Eliminate private donations of any kind to the federal election process and require all elections to be publicly funded.

These steps would create a new post industrial revolution and return the USA to it's leadership role in the world economy and technological advancement ... eliminate unemployment ... create budget surpluses ... and restore integrity to the federal government.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: 'Murica
1,302 posts, read 2,953,828 times
Reputation: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Maybe I should go into porn I can make just as much money as I would trading in securities...........
that would be assuming people would actually pay to watch you get naked and do the nasty. but yeah, whatever floats your boat...you can't hate on the **** stars; that'll be an industry that never needs bailing out.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,218 posts, read 19,518,798 times
Reputation: 5314
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Really? I have my tax form here...lemme see...here's a check...yes...$121k made out to the feds for $307k of actual income (+another 90k of 'phantom' business) income...YOU do the math.

It's inconvenient to have the actual facts in your face, isn't it?
That would be 30%.....

Secondly, are you married, do you have any kids?

Did you itemize your deductions (include property taxes, mortgage interest, etc) or take a standard deduction?
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,966,390 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Really? I have my tax form here...lemme see...here's a check...yes...$121k made out to the feds for $307k of actual income (+another 90k of 'phantom' business) income...YOU do the math.

It's inconvenient to have the actual facts in your face, isn't it?
The math for $121 paid for $397K income is 30%. I assume that's after a lot of deductions as well.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
5,412 posts, read 4,248,363 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
EFFING BREAK! Sure it's not "rich" but $250K in America will still earn you a very comfortable standard of living considering most Americans make FAR less than that. I agree that these people should not be taxed unfairly and the government needs to go after the celebs, athletes, and rich fooks like Bill Gates and CEO of companies who are making millions of millions hand over fist but don't sit there and act like we should feel sorry for those people making $250K when poverty is going up in America. This country is fast becoming a banana republic. Even the rich are too stupid to realize that it seems like.

Even in the third world state of Kaifornia $250K will provide you with an above average standard of living.
that's for a family. What is it for a single person? 125k? You can live like a pauper in Manhattan making that much money.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,966,390 times
Reputation: 35920
I'm sorry, this thread is absolutely nuts! 1.5% of people make >250K and we're supposed to think they're not wealthy? Gimme a break. If 98.5% of the American people can live on less, that's the very definition of wealthy. Also, some of the people on this thread talk about Obama being out of touch with "the people", and yet are posting nonsense like "125k? You can live like a pauper in Manhattan making that much money." $118 K puts one in the top 10%. My spouse and I have never made that much money, yet we raised two kids, sent them both to college with no student loans, have a house that is worth ~ $500K, etc.


http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much-...ncome-numbers/

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 09-13-2010 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:58 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 6,891,006 times
Reputation: 3826
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
While I understand your points and where you are coming from ... I have to tell you that the problems and the beneficiaries of the ponzi scheme you have identified are not the $250K earners. These "earners" may be fortunate enough to have capitalized on the system to a degree, but the true beneficiaries measure their gains in Millions and Billions ... not hundreds of thousands.

You certainly see the problems correctly, but are misidentifying the culprits .. why? Because the culprits have done a very good job of creating this illusion for you to chase.

The reality is that the top 1/2 of the top 1% are raking in Hundreds of Billions ... the bottom half of that top 1% ... Hundreds of Millions ... and neither group shoulder any debt burden or tax burden whatsoever.

The $250kers having actually broken into the top 2% category are simply proof of just how poor the other 98% have gotten as the top 1% have pillaged and plundered the rest of the country into bankruptcy and financial slavery.

As this once great middle class America is destroyed entirely .... with the last ones being the $250kers, there will be only the Millionaire/Billionaire Madison Avenue crowd, and the rest of us. And taxing those $250kers won't do us a lick of good ... they are a very small bunch, and if you taxed them at 100% ... it wouldn't even register on the economic scale.

But I do think we should do the following:

Repeal the Federal Reserve Act, and declare the debt to them null and void under RICO statutes. Seize their assets, and create the United States Central Bank under the authority of US Treasury Department and congress as it was meant to be. Re-issue United States constitutional currency pegged to gold and silver. Terminate the IRS, and create a new Revenue Authority under the control of the United States Central Bank and US Treasury.

Institute a new Federal Tax system that is constitutionally compliant, which would eliminate personal income tax on wages and earnings, and apply tax liabilities to which the constitution requires but is not being done now ... read: tax foreign commerce ... all of the Multinational Corporations that now pay no tax whatsoever ... as well as all incomes generated from foreign commerce.

Consider constitutional amendments that would: permanently prohibit running budget deficits that exceed 15% of the REAL GDP, and not the phony cooked books GDP they use now; require import export trade balance, and prohibit a trade deficit with any country that exceeds 20%. And, consider, and leave up to general referendum by state, a new flat income tax of 10% on personal income profit that exempts each individual 2.5 times the current Cost of Living Index upfront. That way, everyone lives as a free person ... and those who who are fortunate enough to reap sizable gains well above the high averages, can contribute to the general welfare fund for those disabled and unable to care for themselves.

Apply generous tax exemptions directly proportional to a corporation's United States employment numbers, penalizing offshore manufacturing and production and rewarding onshore work and production ... (You'd see Millions of jobs and manufacturing plants popping up all over).

Recall troops and shut down bases in the 140 countries currently running our budget into the ground, and reduce military spending by 70%, with returning service personnel to be incorporated back into the civilian infrastructure-peace time workforce. Maintain rapid deployment troops, current air defenses, and navy at 50% of current numbers (they aren't needed, when you have the capability to take out entire countries with nuclear weaponry if threatened by them).

Eliminate private donations of any kind to the federal election process and require all elections to be publicly funded.

These steps would create a new post industrial revolution and return the USA to it's leadership role in the world economy and technological advancement ... eliminate unemployment ... create budget surpluses ... and restore integrity to the federal government.
Amen. Best post in this thread, maybe in this forum (that I've read so far). I agree with everything you said. This is at the core of our troubles in this country. This thread feels like angry, misdirected outrage by people who are stuck in the political abyss that has become this country.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:04 PM
 
10,854 posts, read 9,317,735 times
Reputation: 3122
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
Currency traders do not have a valuable skill. They are the same thing as a bum in a casino who's good at blackjack. An ex con with enough time on his hands can open up a forex account and if he's good enough can make lots of money. Thats' the entire point........people like you that make money speculating on WallStreet don't add any value to an economy. You simply manipulate and suck off value from the economy. If you want to learn a real skill learn how to farm, weld or build something. Hell be a doctor. I don't care......but try to argue that people on WallStreet are highly 'skilled'. That's a bunch of crap. WallStreet is a game and you learn how to play it. It's not a skill. Wallstreet doesn't build, grow, or mine anything. The banks, the investment firms, the real estate firms have been siphoning off the wealth of America for 50+ years.
In a capitalist system those that take the biggest risk tend to get the biggest rewards. You can all it game but so is football, basketball and baseball. People who play those "games" extremely get amply rewarded based on their ability to perform and their skill .

In any capitalist marketplace you are going to have people who take advantage of buying something at a low price and selling it at a higher price and vice versa whether it's Walmart, or the New York Stock Exchange. Speculation is an essential part of capitalism and makes markets more efficient, competitive and liquid.


The current economic trends DO NOT FAVOR WAGE EARNERS. You are literally in competition with everybody that can do the same thing that you do. If you job involves a product that can be shipped or a skill where information can be transmitted in received you are a global competition that currently does NOT favor American workers. I'd suggest you own a business or have a skill that adds value to whoever your clients or customers' are. The current economy rewards risk and it rewards skill. It does not reward working for a wage. That has now become a COMMODITY.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:05 PM
 
15,140 posts, read 8,673,964 times
Reputation: 7486
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
I would agree. However, I believe it is more politicians getting the Paul to whom they re-distribute the wealth of other to believe they will never be able to attain income level higher than $ x.xx in order for them to push the devisive class warfare mentality that has historically issued in Socialist/Marxist/Communist ideals and social entitlement structures.

If one ever listens to self-made billionares speak or reads their writings they are quite encouraging of others to make the most and become the next generation of job creators and philantropists of this country.

The "Californification" of many resort areas traditionally accessible to the average member of the middle class has, without a doubt, pushed the affordability out of the reach for most. Such are the stories of Jackson Hole, Aspen, Lake Tahoe, the San Juan Islands, etc... . This could easily have been detered by local governments but $$ filled their eyes over long term planning and their constituents did not hold them accountable.

Try to remember it is not what you have, but what you don't spend, that helps build real financial wealth. American consumers should go back to appreciating quality over quantity both financially and in their daily lives.

Punative taxation of the top earners in this country has NEVER created wealth for the bottom half, never. If someone can prove me wrong by all means do so with links!
I think we're on the same page here ... we may just have a bit of a disconnect on terms .... "income" being one of them.

Constitutionally, there is no authority to tax wages and salaries on "domestic sources" (regardless of what is claimed by the crooks), and I'm absolutely opposed to the application of income taxes on those wages and salaries. If you don't own your own labor, someone else does, and that is the definition of slavery.

Income as defined as profit made from foreign commerce is another story, and most of the income of Multinational corporations would fit that category. Now, those Trillions are not taxed at all, and instead, the government (which is owned by those very corporations) taxes the working stiff. It's totally backwards.
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Old 09-13-2010, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,966 posts, read 34,770,608 times
Reputation: 7724
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
How many people have to buy a place in Manhattan? You could live on Long Island right?

You could also rent something 3BR in Manhattan for $4k/month, and have the other $9k of monthly take home to buy luxuries like truffles and midget slaves.

Sorry I've still not seen compelling evidence that a $250k salary could easily cover living in NYC.
Are you familiar with LI?

The operative word in "Long Island" is LONG -- 121 miles long which rules out a decent portion of LI for reasonable commuting. My area is about 60 miles from midtown and I can walk to the RR -- but who wants 2 hours one way?
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