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Old 09-14-2010, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,894,993 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by independentsucka View Post
I thought liberals liked minorities? why some much hatred for 1.5%?
Bad joke! Who said anything about hatred? Did I say that? There have been several on here who think they have invaded my mind and "know" that I'm jealous, envious, and now have hatred towards people making more than $250K. I guess I better get out the tinfoil hat to keep any more people out of my head.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:57 AM
 
646 posts, read 394,523 times
Reputation: 129
the solution to me is simple. flat tax. the more ya make, the more ya pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Bad joke! Who said anything about hatred? Did I say that? There have been several on here who think they have invaded my mind and "know" that I'm jealous, envious, and now have hatred towards people making more than $250K. I guess I better get out the tinfoil hat to keep any more people out of my head.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Central Maine
4,697 posts, read 6,454,807 times
Reputation: 5047
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
250k is middle class...upper middle class....but still middle class
Let's look at that.

[1] In 2009, the poverty level for individuals was $10,590 - for a family of four, it was $21,203. Middle class clearly means higher household incomes.

When reporting on household income, the Census Bureau breaks down into five levels. In 2007, the middle division was a range of $36,000 to $57,660. Most (or all?) economists believe this is a far too narrow range to define middle class. But if you take off the lowest division and the highest division, and look at the three middle divisions, that's still just a range of $19,178 to $91,705. And that's no where close to $250,000.

[2] In 2008, the Census Bureau reported median income at $50,233. According to the Pew Research Center, middle class income could be defined as being that range of income stretching from 75% to 150% of the median income, and that would give the middle class a range of $37,675 to $75,350. Most people would think that the top income is way too small to be considered the top of the middle class range, and I agree. Still, it's a LONG way to $250,000.

[3] Other views include those of Gary Burtless of the Brookings Institution, who estimates that middle class income can be defined as starting at one-half of median income and going up to twice the median income, or a range from $25,117 to $100,466. And Frank Levy of MIT suggests that middle class income can be defined as having sufficient income to afford to own a house, a car, and the ability to pay all necessary bills. He estimates that families are middle class if their income falls between $30,000 and $90,000. Again, this is a LONG way from $250,000.

[4] People often tend to self-define themselves as middle class despite their income levels. According to surveys conducted by Pew Research, 4 out of 10 with incomes under $20,000 think of themselves as middle class, and more than 6 in 10 with incomes over $150,000 identify themselves as middle class.

Now, I'm sure that there are people out there making $250,000 a year and who are struggling to make ends meet. Those struggles may include a very expensive home (or a second, vacation home), vehicles, perhaps Ivy League tuition, and so forth. But does the fact that they make "only" $250,000 somehow mean they are middle class? No. No matter what the dollar amounts are, if your income is such that you fall within the top 2-3% in income of all Americans, you are not in the middle class.

To answer the OP's question, yes, an annual income of $250,000 makes a person part of the upper class. Whether that person manages to live within their means or not is an entirely different question.

References:

What Is an Average Middle Class Salary Range? | eHow.com

Inside the Middle Class: Bad Times Hit the Good Life - Pew Social & Demographic Trends

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RS22627_20070320.pdf
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:10 AM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,607 posts, read 21,412,061 times
Reputation: 10112
If a chairman or CEO worth millions if not billions were looking at this thread seeing people making 30k to 250k fighting against themselves he would be laughing but he wouldn't be on this forum anyway because instead he is in the office of the president or a senator making deals that may take more money out of your pocket to make him (them) richer.

LOL, fuel companies have a difference of 1 penny for a gallon for the consumer and they call it competition? LOL a billion dollar industry like health which is not a product you can just refuse increases your monthly payment by $100, $200 a month and it is called free enterprise?

Speaking of careers, they say the fisherman is one of the most dangerous jobs but the guy who develops auto fuel that can make fossil fuel obsolete is probably the most dangerous job.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:11 AM
 
15,101 posts, read 8,658,062 times
Reputation: 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer View Post
I don't fail to understand anything. You fail to understand that in your own country MANY families make less than half of that and manage to do all those things you talk about. Point being $250K is PLENTY of money in most parts of the USA to live very comfortably.
Yes, and this is the ACTUAL point .. isn't it ... $250K being enough to "live comfortably". But that's not the argument ... the argument is about whether $250K makes you RICH ... not "comfortable".

Apparently, to some, being comfortable is akin to rich .. and they want good old Uncle Sam to take more money from them. But how much? Until they are less comfortable? Or maybe go all the way ... tax them until they are uncomfortable? And who decides what "uncomfortable" actually is ... should half of it be taken? More?

I'll tell you this ... everyone of this "tax the rich" mindset generally follows a simple pattern as to what should be considered "rich", and it's always some figure above what THEY MAKE. Imagine that!

I've heard the ridiculous comments like "I've made it on half that amount, and did just fine and my heart doesn't bleed .... blah blah blah" and such comments make me grit my teeth!!!! The FACT is, the majority are forced to make it on less than 1/4 of that, not half ... and to them, $125K would be doubling, and often tripling their incomes. But don't expect those making $125K to agree that they make TOO MUCH and should give up more ... but that's exactly what they propose is a legitimate thing to do, but just not to them, of course!

Let me tell "these" people something about the facts of life .... when you "legitimize" the theft of other people's money ... I promise you ... it's only a matter of time before the thieves come to steal YOUR POCKET BOOK too.

And based on the financial climate today .... as such a mindset becomes more popular ... I also promise that there are WAY MORE people making $35K ... $45K .. that will consider YOUR $125K TOO MUCH, and that you need to pay more. This is the natural progression of things ... when one abandons "principles" such as allowing the government to steal OTHER people's money ... it won't be long till you end up being part of that "OTHER PEOPLE" category.

"First, they came of the communists, but I didn't speak up, for I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists ... but I didn't speak out, for I was not a trade unionist ... then they came of the Jews, but I didn't speak out, because I was not a Jew ... then they came for me ... and there was no one left to speak out for me."

It all boils down to one simple situation .... we have some of the sheep choosing to herd the other sheep .... it certainly makes it much easier on the sheep herder ... but it's rather foolish on the part of the sheep.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Long Island
32,820 posts, read 19,516,343 times
Reputation: 9619
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenGene View Post
Let's look at that.

[1] In 2009, the poverty level for individuals was $10,590 - for a family of four, it was $21,203. Middle class clearly means higher household incomes.

hmm...but here in nassau county the cut off for SOCIAL SERVICES for a family of 4 is 49,000......here in nassau county under 49,000 is POVERTY
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,894,993 times
Reputation: 35920
It's really hilarious to see some of these same people who talk about people making $250K as "struggling" stating on another thread that people on welfare are affluent!
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:56 AM
 
646 posts, read 394,523 times
Reputation: 129
I don't think anyone said that they were struggling. what I think the basic argument is that everyone's situation is different, and the government really shouldn't be playing this class warfare game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's really hilarious to see some of these same people who talk about people making $250K as "struggling" stating on another thread that people on welfare are affluent!
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,894,993 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by independentsucka View Post
I don't think anyone said that they were struggling. what I think the basic argument is that everyone's situation is different, and the government really shouldn't be playing this class warfare game.
Oh, yeah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
Hmmm...depends.

$250K in places like Dallas or Omaha will make you feel pretty wealthy.

$250K in places like New York, LA, SF, DC, Boston, etc, not so much.

Also:

A 24 year old single hot shot making that is going to feel fine.

A couple with kids, mortgages, saving for retirement and college tuition are going to feel squeezed.

You fail to comprehend that there is not one size fits all.
We barely felt "squeezed" with two in college one year, both, at the time in private colleges, on less than half that! And yes, we've saved for retirement, we have a mortgage and at the time owned four late model cars.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:03 AM
 
3,767 posts, read 4,534,685 times
Reputation: 1395
The only conclusion I can come up with is that the liberals on this forum don't make very much money and the conservatives make a pretty decent living. Because all the liberals want to penalize the people who make more money than them!
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