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I didn't get that impression from anybody in the thread, and I don't consider my family singled out for economic pillaging. That said, "to whom much is given, much is expected."
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I did get that impression when I read a comment like "I make 60k and get by fine on that, if you are making 250k and can't then you aren't managing your money well".
I should say that when I say I see the need for taxes I mean that they also be spent wisely and that the American people not be seen as a 24 hour ATM.
Although when it comes to serious things like healthcare if a person or family is in a bad way I see true need for tax money to help them out. No matter a person's background when it comes to the basics of life or death or easing suffering all people are equal. There is a difference between judging somebody socially because they can afford a Ferrari and judging somebody socially on whether they can afford a treatment or not. Pitching in to help your fellow countryman when they are in real need with tax money is not socialism. It could just as well be you someday with a chain of bad events that threatens everything you worked for or your life. And by bad events I am talking about job loss or health crisis, not just because of bad business or spending decisions.
I did get that impression when I read a comment like "I make 60k and get by fine on that, if you are making 250k and can't then you aren't managing your money well".
I'm a big believer in fiscal responsibility at all income levels, so I can sympathize with his comment.
To expand upon my earlier comment about much being expected of those to whom much is given. I'm growing extremely tired of the same old rhetoric from both sides of the aisle. Democrats seem to spend without any regard for limits and Republicans push tax-cuts without wanting to stick around and deal with the very real problems that result from the reduced revenue (reference my earlier comments about Colorado's Amendments 60, 61, and Proposition 101).
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Originally Posted by lionking
Pitching in to help your fellow countryman when they are in real need with tax money is not socialism.
I agree wholeheartedly.
Last edited by formercalifornian; 09-15-2010 at 03:48 PM..
Bush Approves Auto Industry Bailout - The Consumerist
President Bush has approved a $17.4 billion auto bailout, with $13.4 billion in emergency loans to prevent the collapse of GM and Chrysler and another $4 billion to be handed out in February. The loans are meant to be a lifeline — and will keep the companies afloat until March 31st. At that point, says the NYT, the Obama administration will "determine if the automakers are meeting the conditions of the loans and will continue to receive government aid or must repay the loans and face bankruptcy."
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Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
How bout I put up, and you SHUT UP?
First, it's entirely relevant to call out idiots who advocate raising taxes on individual Americans making $250K, while pointing out how Corporations are paying NO TAXES but are in fact receiving Welfare (Bailouts) using those tax dollars.
Secondly ... by attempting to justify these ludicrous spending programs for things like African pecker cleaning and teaching Chinese Hookers how to drink responsibly, you have IDENTIFIED YOURSELF. And NOTHING I could add about your liberal insanity could come as close to what you have already made clear.
The money goes farther in China than here. You are aware of the Yuan vs. The Dollar, yes? 6.74 Yuan = 1 Dollar, that is a good exchange rate. I prefer studies be done where the dollar goes further, especially when it doesn't matter about the location of the study.
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If only the founding fathers had had the additional foresight to require minimum IQ levels as a qualifier for the 1st Amendment's freedom of speech, deathly silence would fall upon America, and you'd be the first forced to SHUT UP.
Well I would love to know your IQ because mine is 138so I would be able to surpass you without breaking a sweat.
Even if you tax the living daylights out of me, I would much rather my money go to the homeless or education than to the lower and middle classes. I honestly do not know what people expect to do with the extra money. Is it so you can get a tax break? Ahhh... trust me, that thousand dollars you get back is not going to make much of a difference in your life. You will most likely spend it unwisely.
Back to school clothes? Give me a break. Never bought any new clothes during my entire childhood - it was all hand-me-downs from a generation above. People do not need more than 5 outfits for daily wear.
I did just fine when I was making 17k. It was hard but still saved 2k/yr to my retirement funds. To me it doesn't matter if we lower the highest tax bracket down to 30k/single person or 60k/family. These amounts of money are already more than enough to live a modest, but comfortable existence.
If you earn 250k you still cannot afford to spend lavishly. You might have a nicer home and a nicer car. But that's what comes with the territory of making more, being more financially successful.
If you earn 60k you still can afford an apartment and a practical car. That is exactly what you deserve.
Even when I earned 17k I had a functional car and low-rent apartment. Did I say that I wanted everyone else to pay higher taxes? No... Did I want to pay less taxes? No... I simply got a job with good insurance plans. And worked towards the day when I will be earning 250k (it is an option open to anyone).
Speaking from the point of view from somebody who had very little, and had to work very hard to climb the financial stability ladder, I have little patience with people who want to penalize success. This is different from punishing those who are rich from ill-gotten gains -- let them rot in jail and confiscate all their assets. But don't get that mixed up with hard-working upper-middle class citizens who were able to realize the American dream. Sad truth is people are always gonna be sour-grapes about everything and try to shamelessly benefit from the system, no matter what tier income they may be. I've been all tiers of income except for homeless, and let me tell you, I am very thankful I never was.
We barely felt "squeezed" with two in college one year, both, at the time in private colleges, on less than half that! And yes, we've saved for retirement, we have a mortgage and at the time owned four late model cars.
In what year did you pay for two private college tuitions? Today that would amount to 80k for private college and 40k a year for state school.
You assume quite a lot from my posts that I have NEVER said. Why the hate? Quite frankly the bar of $250 K is too low, way too low. Yet, those not earning $250K want to see the bar lowered until there is no middle class at all left. Why? That is the real question you should be asking yourself.
BTW, I do not earn above $250K. However, I would like to grow my business to that one day soon and this $250K bar for taxation set by the Socialists is a huge disincentive for me to participate as a "producer" in society.
What do you think the bar should be?
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Originally Posted by formercalifornian
Once again, specific expenses aren't relevant, and the existence of billionaires doesn't preclude a $250k earner from being wealthy.
There's lots of conversation in this thread about how everything is relative, but I think the difference between those on the poles of this conversation is that some apparently weight those above you on the scale more heavily than those below you. In contrast, I strongly believe that it matters more how many are below you on the ladder.
If you're a millionaire living in Jupiter Island, FL, (home of billionaires) you're at the low end of the scale within that community certainly, and you'll probably struggle with your expenses compared to your neighbors, but that doesn't make you middle class. It simply means that you're living in very expensive housing. The fact that you can even afford to live in Jupiter implies that you are wealthy. Likewise, $250k in annual income is extremely well-off, wealthy even, compared to the rest of the nation.
The person who pointed out that her executive spouse friend must live in an executive-style house in order to succeed in his chosen career is distracted by details. Regardless of where the friend buys her detergent, that woman is wealthy.
Years ago, Jay Leno interviewed an up-an-coming star (whose name escapes me), and the conversation turned to cars. The star asked Jay his opinion about Ferarris, but then he expressed doubt about buying one, saying, "Everybody owns one." Jay, ever the pragmatist, gasped, then laughed, and then gently chided the star. He said something along the lines of "What are you talking about? The parking lots in Muncie, Indiana, aren't filled with Ferraris." I think some of the people here need a similar reality check.
Anyway, all of this is a good reason to make sure you choose your pond carefully.
As for taxes, I'll happily pay my extra $1300/yr. Seriously. Then, I'll go to the polls and vote for the people I think are most able to spend it wisely.
Sort of like someone trying to say that a 6000 sq. ft. home on 4 acres is "bland".
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Originally Posted by amcjap
In what year did you pay for two private college tuitions? Today that would amount to 80k for private college and 40k a year for state school.
2005-06 was the year both were in school.
Now, really. Your numbers are way off for a year's tuition and fees. At a private college, maybe, maybe $40K for a year; at a private, ~ $15K. The youngest one just graduated a year ago.
Wealthy is probably over 1 Million per year because I define wealthy as buying anything, doing anything, and still be rich enough that your heirs will be wealthy.... that's real wealth..
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