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I see I stirred the hornet's nest of conservatives vs liberals. Well, gentlemen, millions of autism Moms have been ahead of you for the past 10 years. But it's not just about our kids anymore, it's about something even more important to Americans- MONEY! So are you going to beat each other up, or join forces and beat China at their own game? You can be the Green Team vs the Red Team, there's a reality competition!
The U.S.-China three legged race | Grist
"...China has overtaken the U.S. this year as the world's largest emitter of carbon pollution (a measure of inefficiency) and the number one consumer of energy, according to the International Energy Agency. But according to the World Bank, China uses 20-100 percent more energy per unit of industrial output than the U.S. or Japan. So last week, the Chinese central government ordered the closure of 2,000 highly polluting and energy-inefficient plants within 60 days. Eighteen industries were affected, including the building blocks of any economy -- steel, paper, and cement. China is committed to improve energy efficiency some 20 percent by the end of this year (compared to 2005 levels) and is already about three quarters of the way to that goal. These closures -- and shifting production to more efficient factories -- will help it get the rest of the way.
Meanwhile, U.S. authorities may not have the power to simply close inefficient, polluting factories, but regulators are using other methods to keep up in the efficiency race. Last week, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced limits on mercury pollution from cement plants, for example, effectively saying the same thing to that industry as China did -- become more efficient or shut down. In a few months, the EPA will expand these limits to the largest source of carbon pollution in America -- coal fired power plants. These rules are added to the EPA’s recently proposed reductions in carbon emissions and, while limiting mercury and carbon not only creates environmental and public health benefits, it forces factories to become more efficient by eliminating those wastes...."
To suggest China is being more environmentally conscious than the US is laughable. The key words here are efficiency, this is something any industry wants do. Keep on blocking the building of newer more efficient coal plants....
Some of us posted credible links to research, others offer insults in an attempt to demean those who can see beyond the fraud. Whom is smarter than a 6th grader based upon posts offered in this thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
When you trap a liberal in the corner, he resorts to insults to try to escape
LOL, its funny how you two included yourself in the group I was describing, especially since I NEVER SAID you two were in that particular group in the 1st place, now did I?
Also kinda of funny or rather hypocritical, the dude crying about insults 'specially since he blatantly does that himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed
Don't tell that to the mentally *******ed . They'd ban water from the air if they got their way
Now let me make this clear, this is what I posted to in response to your statement that stimulus jobs were being sent to China.
Don't like stimulus dough going to foreigners, will if the Buy America provisions wasn't so strongly opposed, a lot of that bread that was siphoned off overseas, could've been spent in the states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman
At current needs in the US there's more than two centuries worth of recoverable coal safely within its borders, matter of fact it could provide a sizable percentage of liquid fuel needs. It can be substituted for jet fuel, diesel and kerosene.
There also the Green River formation that is estimated to contain 1 trillion barrels of oil, that's trillion with a T. It would cost more but none the less it is there.
We will have long switched to renewables before supply is an issue.
Interesting, I've haven't heard of this before.
Mind sharing some more details?
Got any source links to your information?
In their calculations for the 2 centuries worth, are the number crunchers taking into account:
a. population increase due to immigration & birth rates
b. how consumption levels may or may not increase
Both of the above, would affect how fast the finite supply would last, among other things.
True however there is about 263 billion tons of recoverable coal by EIA estimates. We use about 1 billion tons a year. It's a sizable amount, total reserves almost reach 500 billion tons.
If you consider that coal represents millions of years of processing of "old sunlight", consuming it all in the span of a few centuries, does appear a bit - inadvisable.
Specific projects or ideas:
[] Transition to electrified rail transportation
Transfer cargo from long haul trucks to rail (local delivery with short haul trucks)
Construct High Speed Rail corridors, for passenger and fast freight
Rebuild urban electric mass transit (Subway, streetcar, tram, funicular, interurban, express)
[] Build high population density mixed use developments served by rail mass transit
[] "Thicken" the life bearing volume, by multilevel construction, incorporating agriculture and wildlife habitat where feasible
[] Recover arable land lost to suburban sprawl, consolidate rural populations into farming villages, where feasible.
[] Synergistic development of power distribution for electric rail in parallel with alternative power sources (wind turbines, solar, etc).
Overhead catenary power for streetcars / trams and trolley buses
Design Electric vehicles that can tap into the catenary, to extend range
[] Engineer more navigable waterways, rebuild / restore canals.
[] Encourage, but do not subsidize, alternative transportation systems - mag-lev trains, hybrid compound gyroplanes (VTOL).
Most of these solutions are geared toward reducing consumption while maintaining the same level of service or product.
Under current mismanagement, they would become bogged down in years of partisan bickering as interest groups lobbied (bribed) their way into advantage.
Frankly, I don't see any viable solution emanating from the partisan politicians, especially when their idea of innovation is to subsidize a dying auto industry and barely fund High Speed Rail.
(No, I do not suggest any government subsidy for high speed rail. I would prefer ZERO TAXES on all rail companies and their employees. Tax exemption would negate the years lost to wrangling and partisan maneuvering.)
I see I stirred the hornet's nest of conservatives vs liberals. Well, gentlemen, millions of autism Moms have been ahead of you for the past 10 years. But it's not just about our kids anymore, it's about something even more important to Americans- MONEY! So are you going to beat each other up, or join forces and beat China at their own game? You can be the Green Team vs the Red Team, there's a reality competition!
aspie, getting off fossil fuels is a challenge many Americans across the political spectrum recognize.
“We make very clean, sulfur-free hydrocarbons that drop directly into the existing infrastructure for the production of diesel fuel,” said William J. Sims, the chief executive of Joule. The object, he said, was not to be an alternative for fossil fuels, but “to become a viable replacement.
Joule said it would begin construction next year on a commercial plant, which it hopes will begin operations in 2012. The company predicts a yield of 15,000 gallons of diesel components per acre — far more fuel than an acre of corn grown for ethanol can produce. ”
But you're right, in that the asian nations are playing for keeps as well.
"Scientists from Korea have turned the main ingredient of calamine lotion into a tiny material that converts sound waves into electricity. The research could lead to panels that can charge a cell phone from a conversation or provide a boost of energy to the nation's electrical grid generated by the noise during rush hour traffic."
As far as the coal goes the US controls about 27% of the worlds supply. I thinks it's safe to say its the largest fossil fuel energy resource of any nation bar none. Russia and China are next on the list with roughly the same amount as the US combined.
Based on U.S. coal consumption for 2008, the U.S. recoverable coal reserves represent enough coal to last 234 years. However, EIA projects in the most recent Annual Energy Outlook (April 2009) that U.S. coal consumption will increase at about 0.6% per year for the period 2007-2030. If that growth rate continues into the future, U.S. recoverable coal reserves would be exhausted in about 146 years if no new reserves are added.
Those numbers are based on recoverable reserves which is what they expect to be recovered from the total reserves. It's not all included because it may be impractical for a variety of reasons like the seam is not that thick or it might unattainable because it's under a major city.
The Green River Formation is a oil shale deposit out west, more information can be found here:
While oil shale is found in many places worldwide, by far the largest deposits in the world are found in the United States in the Green River Formation, which covers portions of Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming. Estimates of the oil resource in place within the Green River Formation range from 1.2 to 1.8 trillion barrels. Not all resources in place are recoverable; however, even a moderate estimate of 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from oil shale in the Green River Formation is three times greater than the proven oil reserves of Saudi Arabia. Present U.S. demand for petroleum products is about 20 million barrels per day. If oil shale could be used to meet a quarter of that demand, the estimated 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil from the Green River Formation would last for more than 400 years
Oil shale is much more energy intensive that conventional oil well because it needs to be processed which requires energy. This resource and the coal to oil process are not utilized because of cheaper conventional oil.
Bringing NEW industry to America will bring NEW jobs. What could possibly be better than Green Economy initiatives to create real job growth (with real living wages), clean energies generated in our own country, and a self-sustaining economy for America?
To suggest China is being more environmentally conscious than the US is laughable. The key words here are efficiency, this is something any industry wants do. Keep on blocking the building of newer more efficient coal plants....
On 09.09.10, In News, By TeOn 09.09.10, ryn Norris
By Teryn Norris & Daniel Goldfarb 9/9/10
'China is rising to dominate the clean energy industry primarily due to direct government subsidies, according to a new investigative report by the New York Times. The rise of China’s “green mercantilism” marks a new stage in the global clean energy race and raises critical questions for U.S. competitiveness policy. According to the report:
The booming Chinese clean energy sector, now more than a million jobs strong, is quickly coming to dominate the production of technologies essential to slowing global warming… much of China’s clean energy success lies in aggressive government policies that help this crucial export industry in ways most other governments do not… “Who wins this clean energy race,” Mr. Zhao of Sunzone said, “really depends on how much support the government gives.”...'
Saturday, July 24th, 2010 | Posted by Derrick Mains Beyond Petroleum
"...It’s time for full cost accounting and measuring the origin impact. We have to think beyond the carbon footprint or the cost of the raw materials. We need to think about what we produce and the costs that go beyond the balance sheet: the costs to the environment, to the people that live where our raw materials originate, the cost of the life of a pelican, gull or fish. It’s time that we assign someone to represent future generations that think of our impact on them. The cost for blowing up a mountain to access its coal should be much greater than the price paid to the landowner for the land. The cost of the deterioration or destruction of an ecosystem must be much greater than the cost of buying access to its stream or paying a usage fee to a local community...."
"...But you're right, in that the asian nations are playing for keeps as well.
"Scientists from Korea have turned the main ingredient of calamine lotion into a tiny material that converts sound waves into electricity. The research could lead to panels that can charge a cell phone from a conversation or provide a boost of energy to the nation's electrical grid generated by the noise during rush hour traffic."
yep
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Well, gentlemen, millions of autism Moms have been ahead of you for the past 10 years. But it's not just about our kids anymore, it's about something even more important to Americans- MONEY! 
So are you going to beat each other up, or join forces and beat China at their own game? You can be the Green Team vs the Red Team, there's a reality competition!
