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i can see your point of view and think it would be more reasonable to settle for chador or at least niqab, but i am just saying i'm sure solutions could be found even for burqa.
They are at best symbols of oppression. Women are beaten to death in Iran for not hiding under a chador. That alone should make us forbid them.
They are at best symbols of oppression. Women are beaten to death in Iran for not hiding under a chador. That alone should make us forbid them.
yes -- in iran. and i agree, enforcing clothing with violence is absolutely awful. trust me, i'm the first person to agree. i'm aware of the basiji and their methods of oppression. i did translation of human rights cases for this site for 6 years. and believe me i would have agreed with you for a long time.
but we have to understand there is a world of difference between choosing hijab and being forced to wear hijab. it's the enforcement aspect, and the level of violence used to enforce hijab that makes it oppressive in countries like iran and afghanistan. but that is completely different from a woman in morocco or france or the u.s. who wears hijab as a personal choice.
these two cases are entirely different and should not at all be treated the same.
I'm glad that the french banned burqas. Here in Switzerland we banned the minarets! Thanks to these measures I'm less offended everyday! I hope will soon ban Islam! If they want "freedom" they should go back in their country! We are civilized here!
Just curious, with the state of the economy now, who do you expect to pay for another identification system? Also, who will pay for the lawsuits that arise when women in burkas start suing over the fact that everyone else who speeds gets their ticket and leaves but they have to take a 3 hour trip to the police station to be identified by other means?
The solution is simple, it is a small minority of people who want to be different, the large majority should not have to pay for their whims. You want to wear a burka, fine, but know that at some point you will have to show your face.
i agree that briefly showing your face to a store owner or police officer would be the most reasonable compromise. i'm just saying, if any burqa'i or niqabi women protested this, i wouldn't be surprised, since it goes against every concept of awrah you can imagine. if it came to that point, i'm sure muslims would be willing to self-fund a system that would be as quick and easy as showing their face. maybe running a finger over a scanner or something. i'm not proposing this is what should be done, i am just saying a solution probably could be found for the burqa/identification issue if it came to that point.
Note to would be robbers: wear a burqa and you're good to go!
Seriously, the establishment should reserve the right to forbid the burqa.
Exactly. I am really surprised that this has not started happening already.
What I find interesting is the fact that the only people defending the burqa issue are men.
There hasnt been 1 woman defending it.
Why is that, I wonder?
Exactly. I am really surprised that this has not started happening already.
What I find interesting is the fact that the only people defending the burqa issue are men.
There hasnt been 1 woman defending it.
Why is that, I wonder?
um. i'm female. and i defend the right for a woman to wear it if she so chooses.
i wonder how many other women you assumed are men.
I have no problem with them if they are a woman's choice (and yes, as much as it may shock you, there are women in the USA and Europe who choose to wear them and are not required by family). In fact, I heard today about a group of a few hundred ultra-Orthodox Jewish women in Israel who have adopted the burka because it fits Jewish Biblical Law (though most Orthodox women just cover their hair when married and all cover up to their elbows and knees).
They are choosing to follow edicts conceived of and written by men.
um. i'm female. and i defend the right for a woman to wear it if she so chooses.
i wonder how many other women you assumed are men.
I apologize for that. You would be the only woman, I am pretty familiar with most of the other posters here.
Let me ask you a question, if I may.
Are you an American?
I apologize for that. You would be the only woman, I am pretty familiar with most of the other posters here.
Let me ask you a question, if I may.
Are you an American?
yep. and i've even worked as a translator for a foundation that reported many of the cruelties performed in iran, including the enforcing of hijab. i have no middle eastern ancestry whatsoever. i taught myself farsi so i could do the job. the only reason i stopped is cause i went totally blind and then became almost totally deaf and screen reader/braille technology doesn't support working in latin and arabic scripts simultaneously.
i very much understand the distaste people have for hijab and islam in general, because of the heinous crimes and violations against human rights that go on every day because of it. personally, i don't agree with a lot of islam ideology and i would probably be killed in a lot of muslim countries for being lesbian. that said, i still defend the right for people to believe in whatever they want and to practice their religion peacefully, whatever it may be. even if i disagree with it vehemently on a personal level.
i also think it's important to distinguish between people who are forced to practice islam and people who choose to practice islam. it's the difference between atheists in america who come to atheism as a result of their own thought processes, and eastern europeans who were forbidden to practice religion in the u.s.s.r. it's the difference between being allowed to choose what you wear and having to abide by a strict national dress code. this last example should go both ways: banning hijab is really no better than enforcing it. it's still trying to control how people express themselves and practice their religion.
at some point we have to realize it's not just about islam itself, and while a lot of these acts are dnoe in the name of islam, it's the acts themselves that are wrong. it's the acts of violence we should oppose and work to eliminate, not the ideology. because as tempting as it may be for many people to blow off all muslims as evil, that's simply not the case. there are just too many peaceful, kind muslims that don't deserve to be lumped with the extremist terrorist groups and armed forces.
it seems a lot of people have been understanding my posts as saying muslims should be able to wear burqa, kill, do whatever they please, period. that's not at all what i'm trying to convey. i am simply trying to convey that where there is a will, there is a way. compromises can be found if extremism is eliminated and both sides are willing to come together to think of a solution.
yep. and i've even worked as a translator for a foundation that reported many of the cruelties performed in iran, including the enforcing of hijab. i have no middle eastern ancestry whatsoever. i taught myself farsi so i could do the job. the only reason i stopped is cause i went totally blind and then became almost totally deaf and screen reader/braille technology doesn't support working in latin and arabic scripts simultaneously.
i very much understand the distaste people have for hijab and islam in general, because of the heinous crimes and violations against human rights that go on every day because of it. that said, i also think it's important to distinguish between people who are forced to practice islam and people who choose to practice islam.
at some point we have to realize it's not just about islam itself, and while a lot of these acts are dnoe in the name of islam, it's the acts themselves that are wrong. it's the acts of violence we should oppose and work to eliminate, not the ideology. because as tempting as it may be for many people to blow off all muslims as evil, that's simply not the case. there are just too many peaceful, kind muslims that don't deserve to be lumped with the extremist terrorist groups and armed forces.
it seems a lot of people have been understanding my posts as saying muslims should be able to wear burqa, kill, do whatever they please, period. that's not at all what i'm trying to convey. i am simply trying to convey that where there is a will, there is a way. compromises can be found if extremism is eliminated and both sides are willing to come together to think of a solution.
I found your post thoughtful and well-written, however......
There will always be extremists doing heinous things in the name of (insert name of cause here).
To think that these kind of people are suddenly going to become rational, compassionate human beings is idealistic at best, naive to say the least.
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