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As a woman, a feminist, an American, a Jew and the mother of a daughter I've never understood why I should feel anything but disgust for the Islamic religion.
Islam's Stance on Women's Testimony - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar (http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar&cid=111 9503544348 - broken link)
Look at that. A woman's testimony is accounted for half that of a man in an Islamic court. What woman would accept that sort of second class status? There's no excuse for it.
Why should I respect a religion with such practices?
You'd be surprised to learn how many women who describe themselves similarly to yourself do support and respect Islam.
Did I suggest it should be judge by a radio show, no. I merely pointed out what I heard. I'vbe been searching for a transcript so others could hear it but thus far I've not located one.
You can quote anything from the qur'an you want. It means nothing to me because I have nothing by which to reference its context and in what order it falls compared to other teachings of Muhammad.
So, point blank, do you reject every single passage in the qur'an that calls for the killing of non-believers? A simple yes or no will do. Thank you.
There are no passages that call for the killing of non-believers, there are passages that order the believers to respond similarly towards those who act violently towards them, expel them from their homes, force them out of their religion or any other form of transgression against them.I accept that in its entirety because it is FAIR. same like the Constitution when it calls all the citizens to rise in defense of their homeland against the enemies, in war, where people get killed. do you reject the constitution?
Do some research to examine the context.
Don't try to impose answers on me, because it is not going to work
Last edited by aehussein; 09-20-2010 at 08:01 PM..
You'd be surprised to learn how many women who describe themselves similarly to yourself do support and respect Islam.
Sir, Thank you very much, you saved me a lot of typing, you proved my point right before I even say it.
My point is: Islam isn't a satanic belief, there are already a lot of westerners that had come to realize that all the allegations made by people like Eleanor are faked, biased and not accurate, please Eleanora, listen to your buddy , and do dome research to figure out what these women had come to that you still are not able to
Sir, Thank you very much, you saved me a lot of typing, you proved my point right before I even say it.
My point is: Islam isn't a satanic belief, there are already a lot of westerners that had come to realize that all the allegations made by people like Eleanor are faked, biased and not accurate, please Eleanora, listen to your buddy , and do dome research to figure out what these women had come to that you still are not able to
What the heck have I written that was fake about Islam?
Women are indeed second class citizens in nearly all Islamic nations. Do you deny this? Do you deny that Muslim courts state that a woman's words are equal to half a man's just because she's a woman? That women are murdered in honor killings in many Muslim nations? That women face unequal marriage and divorce laws throughout the Islamic world?
You have nothing at all to say about this? Was the Time magazine article full of lies?
Why should I respect an ideology that does not respect me solely on the basis of gender? Islam is a belief system and nothing more. As belief systems go it's really nothing all that special.
FYI, I think Kirkdik's comment was intended as shock rather than praise. People find rigid ideologies comforting. That doesn't mean half the population should suffer legalized discrimination.
You're kidding, right? Women are equal in Islamic societies? Which ones? Saudi Arabia where they have to have a guardian? Iran where they're subject to religious police and jailing if men see their hair? Afghanistan where they're hounded from school? Jordan where they're subject to honor killings?
What, do you really think we don't know this stuff?
But nowhere in the Muslim world are women treated as equals.
The koran is full of war making against non-Muslims. Today the Islamic world is in turmoil. The Saudis fight with the Yeminis. The third greatest conflict of the last century was the Iran-Iran war. Nigerian Muslims wage war on Christian Muslims. Bloody borders indeed to quote a certain authority.
Native Americans are not being massacred today. African Americans have full rights. Can you say the same about half the population of Islamic nations? About the Ba'hais in Iran? The Copts in Egypt?
Oh and FYI, Saudi Arabia did not abolish slavery until about thirty years ago. Nice place, huh? It's an ugly philosophy based around admiration of an ugly sixth century bore and worship of a meteorite.
Forget it. I have every right to insult their beliefs if I so choose. They're barbarians and morons. They deserve to mocked and often.
We're not your dhimmis. Get over it.
1-Islam as a system of belief " a religion to me and 1.5 billion others" cannot be judged by the acts of people, or regimes, after all KSA for example is a pure product of the CIA and the British intelligence " Lawrence of Arabia". to secure the Oil supply, ...
2-Please don't present the extreme as it is the norm or else you are deceiving your audience.
3-I come from Egypt.My mom is a Dentist, 58 and still working ,my sis is a physician, she was my dads favorite,I always got in trouble because of her and that he thought that parents has to be gentle with the girls and he was a devout Muslim. Millions of families are like that up there, try to visit and see, there are a lot of documentaries about muslim socities on teh web that are available for viewing.
4- By mentioning Egypt, half of my neighbors in the apartment building I lived in were Christians,were friends of me and my family and still are, I grew up in a christian school, had christian friends and colleagues almost allover my life, we never had major issues like those you are trying to present, only minor staff that happens in any multi-cultural community and generalizing such issues to portray a whole community pattern is bare nonsense.
5-The issues about women driving, guardian , testimony and all that staff need you to research into it and read Scholars refutation, also to learn that a lot of the issues in Shariah Law are dynamic and open for discussion, according to the original context and the narrated sayings of the prophet. and that is part of the beauty of Islam.please revisit the article about woman testimony, and you will read that it is not because of inferiority, or superiority of men, but rather because of psychological differences between both genders, that was taken into account to ensure unbiased judgments please don't deny these differences or I will have to mention issues regarding female behavioral patterns during the menstrual cycle.
Your friend Kirdik, just unintentionally i believe, pointed out that the way you see Islam, specially through your biased sources and ignorant reasoningisn't necessarily the right way, as there are numerous numbers of women that define themselves the same way you did, and still support and respect Islam,
1-Islam as a system of belief " a religion to me and 1.5 billion others" cannot be judged by the acts of people, or regimes, after all KSA for example is a pure product of the CIA and the British intelligence " Lawrence of Arabia". to secure the Oil supply, ...
2-Please don't present the extreme as it is the norm or else you are deceiving your audience.
3-I come from Egypt.My mom is a Dentist, 58 and still working ,my sis is a physician, she was my dads favorite,I always got in trouble because of her and that he thought that parents has to be gentle with the girls and he was a devout Muslim. Millions of families are like that up there, try to visit and see, there are a lot of documentaries about muslim socities on teh web that are available for viewing.
4- By mentioning Egypt, half of my neighbors in the apartment building I lived in were Christians,were friends of me and my family and still are, I grew up in a christian school, had christian friends and colleagues almost allover my life, we never had major issues like those you are trying to present, only minor staff that happens in any multi-cultural community and generalizing such issues to portray a whole community pattern is bare nonsense.
5-The issues about women driving, guardian , testimony and all that staff need you to research into it and read Scholars refutation, also to learn that a lot of the issues in Shariah Law are dynamic and open for discussion, according to the original context and the narrated sayings of the prophet. and that is part of the beauty of Islam.please revisit the article about woman testimony, and you will read that it is not because of inferiority, or superiority of men, but rather because of psychological differences between both genders, that was taken into account to ensure unbiased judgments please don't deny these differences or I will have to mention issues regarding female behavioral patterns during the menstrual cycle.
Your friend Kirdik, just unintentionally i believe, pointed out that the way you see Islam, specially through your biased sources and ignorant reasoningisn't necessarily the right way, as there are numerous numbers of women that define themselves the same way you did, and still support and respect Islam,
As you being a Jew, please google "violence in the old testament" to see what is written in your book.
I'm done with you guys, Bye Bye
1) Of course Islam can be judged by the acts of people. What else would one judge it on? Saudi Arabia sucks. You cannot expect people to ignore that.
2) What extreme? There are 22 Muslim nations. They're largely not democracies and they are largely places where women and non-Muslims are treated like dirt.
3) That very same Egypt ran a state sponsored documentary a few years ago accusing Jews of baking children to make matzo. The Egyptian press is a cesspool of hatred.
4) I have a friend who is a Copt. He tells quite different stories about why he left Egypt.
5) There's nothing beautiful about treating half your population like garbage. Differences between the genders do not mean that a man is twice as reliable in court than a male solely because a man is a man. And if you are trying to imply that I am just another irrational woman under the influence of menstraul hormones well . . .
6) You have yet to refute any of my assertions. Screaming Islamophobia and racism is not much of an arguement.
7) I don't claim Judaism is perfect. So what? At least Jewish women can drive. At least they face largely equally educational opportunities and nearly full equality before the law.
You'd be surprised to learn how many women who describe themselves similarly to yourself do support and respect Islam.
They have no choice but to profess that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
There are no passages that call for the killing of non-believers, there are passages that order the believers to respond similarly towards those who act violently towards them, expel them from their homes, force them out of their religion or any other form of transgression against them.I accept that in its entirety because it is FAIR. same like the Constitution when it calls all the citizens to rise in defense of their homeland against the enemies, in war, where people get killed. do you reject the constitution?
You would compare your religious rules/dictates/precepts to the Constitution of the U.S.? How totally illogical and erroneous. There is no comparison. You think a passage in the Quran is FAIR simply because it is there? What you think is FAIR over there may be criminal under the laws here. The claim that your religion is 1400 years old does not speak in its favor. The religion is stuck in time. Do not justify its acts by citing segretation in this country. This country progressed through hard work and sweat and tears and blood to move out of segregation. I don't see Islam making any effort to move into the current century (even though there are people who risk their lives to demonstrate for that - and would you say that what happens to dissidents in the Middle East is FAIR?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1
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all of your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
If you really think that a faith that is followed by 1.5 billion people and lasted for 1400 years can be judged by listening to a radio show, then it is your problem.
Also, search for violence in the bible and you will see real violent passages,
here is a passage from the quran, maybe you will realize what is wrong with your logic:
"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity." (Quran 60:8)
Allah loves those who deal with equity. How nice. Quoted from above: [I]...passages that order the believers to respond similarly towards those who act violently towards them, expel them from their homes, force them out of their religion or any other form of transgression against them.I accept that in its entirety because it is FAIR[/i]
These passages order Muslims to respond violently. Thank you. At least you admit that, and you think this is fair. Also, Allah loves those who deal "fairly" with others (even if that involves violence for whatever transgression they feel has been committed.)
You are misunderstanding the Bible. That the Bible has violent passages does not mean that a nation abides by those passages. Much of what you refer to is historical, not a dictate of how to live today. It is not an "order" as are your passages. As to your comment about the religion being 1400 years old, it's time it evolved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirdik
This is a fallacious logic. She did not draw Mohamed on a wall of a Mosque.
Any religion should not get in the way of freedom of speech, including Islam.
The question has not been answered as to why a drawing of Mohammed is blasphemy. Mohammed is not Allah. She did not attempt to draw Allah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
Demeans women ?!!! instigates war against non-believers??!!! can you prove that?? do you have any examples to illustrate that, are you ready for a reasonable discussion to prove or disprove that?, or is it what you hear at the S***hole you attend lectures at??
One who knows the Quran, and is honest, would be able to show passages that order war on infidels, but it is more convenient to the argument not to acknowledge those, is it not? As for demeaning women, the gender difference you cited is sufficient. Forcing them to drape head to toe because the men in your culture don't have self control is not demeaning? They are forbidden to disagree with their husband for fear of a beating, since is OK for Muslims to beat their wives. Would you like to discuss the plight of women who are accused either rightly or wrongly of adultery? Buried up to the neck and stoned until dead. I suppose that is also "fair". Or whipped with 100 lashes wrongly? Do you people even know what justice and a fair trial is? Do Muslims comprehend the principles behind our Constitution?
My conclusion out of this stupid discussion is that I see inquisition coming to the US, I see inquisition coming and I see forceful conversion of Muslims, I see executions, torture , rape and children killing and kidnapping, it happened before, and it will happen again, and for the same alleged reasons "Islam is from the devil", lets convert all Muslims or else kill them." review history of the inquisition in Spain"
The post is an interesting glimpse into your thought processes. You are seeing through the eyes of your religion. It is what Islam would do, therefore you project since it is what you know. You have forgotten that the modern world has evolved beyond that, and left Islam behind (by its own choice).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aehussein
I don't really wanna get into comparative religion debate, but if you wanna talk about manufactured religion, here is what Christian theologists say about Christianity: The mythmaker: Paul and the ... - Google Books
Your argument is also invalid, former Muslims views against Islam could exactly be as biased as Muslims defense of Islam, so a Non Muslim view of Islam and the prophet gives you a glimpse into the character that, for people with working brains, will draw your attention to the fact that you could be seeing the subject from one point of view and there are other points of view , other sides of the story, narrations,interpretations that you didn't get the chance to look at.
My conclusion out of this stupid discussion is that I see inquisition coming to the US, I see inquisition coming and I see forceful conversion of Muslims, I see executions, torture , rape and children killing and kidnapping, it happened before, and it will happen again, and for the same alleged reasons "Islam is from the devil", lets convert all Muslims or else kill them." review history of the inquisition in Spain"
(responding to that I placed in bold)
If it is coming to the U.S, then it is coming from the Islamic country.
Christ is a teacher, not a converter. Those of Christ teach His message. If the people who hear the message & they choose to follow, they do so by choice.
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all of your posts.
